Well /x/, here is the deal, I really need a miracle, and I need it ASAP.
I have studied countless traditions, all around the world, and I have yet to experience anything that any of them promise.
I am beginning to lose all hope that my life might improve, and there is no way I can endure 50-60 more years of this.
I need the actual secrets to shaping reality /x/ or anything, anything at all, that might be able to point me in that direction.
Thanks for reading. Any help is appreciated.
 Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
 UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
Maybe an epistemological humility and an acceptance of uncertainty? What's the weather like out there?
Abandon all delusions of control. Trahor Fatis.
have you considered worshiping satan?
Considered, investigated, found nothing...
He was talking about Hercule Satan
He was talking about Hercule Poirot
ummm, Christ is lord
Do you want to shape reality or do you want reality to be more agreeable and less disagreeable etc.?
I would say that those are one in the same aren't they?
If you want to shape reality, it is because you want it's shape to be more agreeable, no?
>I would say that those are one in the same aren't they?
Not necessarily. They can be as different as (and I would argue they often are as different as) someone who using violence or raised voices to bring the world to heel (and thus decide, however limitedly, their experience of life) and someone merely extricating themselves from troublesome situations and exercising situational awareness to determine the experience(s) they have in life.
>If you want to shape reality, it is because you want it's shape to be more agreeable, no?
More agreeable or less disagreeable. This is basically semantics but maybe worth mentioning: some people want control so they don't have to experience bad things in the future and some people want control so they can experience good things in the future (of course, some want both at the same time. They have a particularly clever goal, I think)
How do you experience good things and not bad things in the future, brother?
Do you want the explanation that includes life after death or the one that doesnt?
Not the same person who asked but I would be interested in both if you have time, starting with the one that doesn't preferably.
Sure.
When one you do good to others, the bad people try to preserve you because they see advantage, mediocre/hypocritical people try to preserve you because they see profit or another sort of stability, and good people try to preserve you...because they are good/because they are sane and they, like evil and mediocre/hypocritical people, also like preserving that which is pleasant, agreeable, likeable and desirable.
When you are bad to people, the opposite is basically true: insofar as you are bad, you have made enemies of everyone. The good eschew your presence in pretty much every meaningful way, you have fairweather friends in the hypocritical, and the evil become your bedfellows and enemies all in one go.
That second one is a bit of a gloss of the facts because there are so many facets and I've really only experienced the first thing directly (but I've read a lot of books, listened to a lot of people and watched a lot of stories unfold so I know that the second one definitely happens).
The experience of good people and bad people, when one becomes privy to their internal experience of events, can't really be compared.
So how do you experience good things and not bad things in the future?
1. Arouse your energy and don't be lazy (even if it takes you coffee or adderall to do so [see a doctor for a script and see if you aren't, like, ADHD or something]),
2. exercise diligence/earnestness and not negligence,
3. exercise contentment instead of discontent (discontent is conducive to taking what's not given/profiteering and profiteering is just theft with lawfulness rizz),
4. exercise situational awareness and and not the lack of it
5, Cultivate good friendships (companionship with people who do the above stuff and also what I say after) and abandon bad friendships (people who do the bad stuff to themselves or others)
6. Pursue habits that sound good on paper and turn out to be good in reality. Abandon habits that sound bad on paper and ARE bad.1/
On the surface; that almost makes sense, the only problem that I see with it is that it's not really a good way to get money or success. It potentially trades money and success for relationships with other people, and only if you are very careful.
People will take everything that you have and still demand more, what you do give them, they will take for granted, and if you provide them with no value at all; you are garbage to them, literally "worthless".
I don't think that buying people off is the key to happiness, buying *certain* people off might be key to navigating this world effectively, if you can find those people, and can afford to buy them off, but I think that going through life trying to give in order to receive is a good way to end up homeless and destitute.
>the only problem that I see with it is that it's not really a good way to get money or success.
True. It limits what livelihoods you can conceivably take up, and perhaps, at it's most pure/extreme, limits livelihood founded on profit motive entirely.
>It potentially trades money and success for relationships with other people
Yes
>and only if you are very careful.
If one is earnest, diligent, practice situational awareness and apply their mind rationally then they are, by definition, very careful.
>People will take everything that you have and still demand more
People will do that anyway if they have the kind of disposition which doesn't restrain them from being a greedy, worthless person.
>what you do give them, they will take for granted,
Ungrateful people will be ungrateful whether you are kind to them or unkind to them. Grateful people will be grateful whether you are kind to them or unkind to them. That's is a fundamental law of human nature.
>and if you provide them with no value at all; you are garbage to them, literally "worthless".
Yes?
>I don't think that buying people off is the key to happiness
At every given moment, you are either doing evil, doing good, or doing what is neither-evil-nor-good. Of these three, it is good which reigns supreme and is conducive to to what is likeable, agreeable, desirable, pleasant, and without drawback: not the other two. You say "Buying people off" and I say "failing to piss them off and/or intentionally exclude yourself from the good graces which are on the table".
>buying *certain* people off might be key to navigating this world effectively
I think you're truly wrong. I, for one, don't make friends with people who are good to same and not good to others. Because that shows a lack of integrity and people who lack integrity will, sooner or later, act in line with that toward me. And other not-evil-but-not-good-either type things come about when you hang out with that kind of person.
1/2
>if you can find those people, and can afford to buy them off
There is a whole class of people, people who are loving and loveable, charitable and gracious, who by no means be bought off. They are, in fact, the best of people.
>but I think that going through life trying to give in order to receive is a good way to end up homeless and destitute.
I mean, maybe if everything was always above board and everyone always told the truth, what you are saying would make sense, but people lie, cheat, and steal.
You can't always trust other people to play fairly and expose their true nature.
I'm not saying not to give, but I think that anyone giving in order to receive is going to be very disappointed when the final hand is dealt.
To add to this, I know pedophiles who are loved by everyone around them, and I know homeless people who would give you the shirt off their back.
In theory, yes, good people get good things back while bad people get bad things back IS how the world SHOULD work in theory, but that isn't what we see in practice.
>To add to this, I know pedophiles who are loved by everyone around them, and I know homeless people who would give you the shirt off their back.
So be a pedophile or...?
>In theory, yes, good people get good things back while bad people get bad things back IS how the world SHOULD work in theory, but that isn't what we see in practice.
It's what -I- see in practice. But I'm a seer/shaman type guy. I talk to spirits and can hear and feel worlds other than earth.
If that is how it ACTUALLY works, in practice, then why is my pedophile cousin is a chick magnet?
By your logic he should be living a miserable life, and while he certainly b***hes a lot, he is doing objectively better than anyone else that I know...
I was referring to the state of one's existence and experience of existence after death, not over a single life.
Idk, I think that's just cope that people tell themselves so that they can believe we live in a just world...
As above, so below... If life isn't fair; I don't expect the afterlife to be any different...
then that is what you'll get
That's not how belief and viewpoints work. He'll be known by his fruits (what comes of what he does and doesn't do, etc).
ok. love vibration?
Can you repost this post using one or more full sentences? If so, please do. If you do, I will respond.
You know what he meant. Dont be petty.
On god, I had no idea what he meant. To be sure, I call "knowing what he meant" knowing what he meant at length and in brief. I literally have no idea where to even start to know what he meant because he didn't really say anything: he made an oblique reference to a concept.
Was he referring to law of attraction and its effects? Maybe. I can't respond to a pure maybe though can I? If I even had a solid suspicion what he was saying, I probably would have just responded and asked clarifying questions. But I literally have no idea what he might have actually meant (and I suspect that HE didn't either, at least at the time of writing and sending that post).
My bad, I was being reductive. Maybe an oversimplification of my understanding of what I think is your primary spiritual philosophy. But I wasn't sure so I just wrote love vibrations to see if you would expand on it like an overview. Again, my bad. I've been talking to AI perhaps too frequently. No need to pay it any heed. If I am on track with this spiritual philosophy, I was wondering if you have tips on awakening? If that's a thing. I am very new to this and this board
Read the first link here
and put it into daily practice. Don't just act good but think good and speak good. If you feel disingenuous about it, maybe do a relevant google search to maybe find some mantras/affirmations/etc. that make you feel like less of a positive phony and more like a positive, real upstanding guy. That's what I did anyway and over the years I've got lots of little habits and viewpoints that are good for me. Maybe explore some self-help books as well.
For me, sometimes the key to establishing myself in a new way of life was just to read what I wanted worded in a way that stuck (and that I could repeat to myself).
In any case, it's impossible that bad is the outcome of good so just be so for real, be selfless, keep good friends (or, failing that, no friends at all) and be patient. Good is the outcome of good. The better you are at doing good, the better the outcome.
Thank you
>people lie, cheat, and steal.
Not all of them?
>You can't always trust other people to play fairly and expose their true nature.
There is knowledge which, when had and recalled, allows one to rightly discern whether someone has integrity or not, is earnest or not, is forthright or not, is overcome by greed or not, intends upon the well-being of others or not, etc. etc. Google is free. Feel free to fall down the rabbit whole and come up with something valuable.
>I'm not saying not to give, but I think that anyone giving in order to receive is going to be very disappointed when the final hand is dealt.
I didn't really say "Give to receive" I said "If you give, you receive". It's a natural and inherent consequence that one who is likeable ends up liked and one who is something else ends up otherwise.
7. Apply your mind rationally only, never irrationally. Rational application of mind is conducive to having either the right viewpoint of a situation or, failing that, the right stance, attitude, sentiment toward it. The kind that is might lead to good and will never lead to bad. Irrational application of mind, insofar as it it exercised, is conducive to the opposite of all that.
That's the long and short of the no afterlife explanation. If you do that, you'll eventually reach your natty limit in this life in terms of attractiveness, skillfulness, good friends, people who think of you kindly, and money in your pocket (or some other kind of stability making resource).
The afterlife explanation is pretty much all of the above except a few things that are hard to substantiate without direct experience. Basically if you do all that, you guard your mind and senses from ill-will and instead imbue your mind and senses with goodwill/compasison/etc, are charitable to those in need (whether they ask or not [especially if they don't ask tbh, that's a protip]) then you will, after death, rit's very likely you will both 1. arise somewhere nice 2. be surrounded in that somewhere nice by people/beings who are also nice (at least as nice as you, and perhaps nicer [although I wouldn't at all bank on them being nicer than you, but it's possible I guess]).
Here are some relevant buddhist suttas to help you get the skills down. If I were to illustrate why I'm posting the suttas, it'd be because I've basically revealed to you a good career and now you should probably know some of the technical aspects so you can actually do it.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Khp/khp9.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN20.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN35_88.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN36_6.html
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN22_59.html
Source: I talk to and see and hear (and smell etc) spirits.
You want an object of wonder...
Your looking at one...
Tradition...
To give up and hand over...
Reality...
Has virtually been eaten alive...
What traditions have you studied? Please name a few.
Mostly the Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant, Islam, and even various sects of Satanism and Gnosticism, I have also studied a few eastern traditions, mostly Buddhism and Daoism, both secular and esoteric, and I have dabbled a bit in Hindu beliefs as well as Yoga and currently I am studying ZoroAstrianism as well as various forms of Shamanism.
There are too many to name, but these are a few of the traditions that I have spent the most time on.
>shaping reality
you need to accept reality. study your own nature and align yourself to you. astrology is useful for this.
Well, I can accept that reality is the way that it is, but accepting reality as it is just sounds like giving up, which isn't what I'm looking for...
I am looking for supernatural solutions, not mentalism.
>I am looking for supernatural solutions, not mentalism.
that's what I offered you. them with eyes let them see.
You offered
1. accept reality
2. study your own nature
3. align yourself to you
None of this looks like a way to achieve my goals, this all sounds more like ways of augmenting my goals in order to better accept what already exists. A noble goal, but not supernatural, or what I am looking for.
Not sure how astrology fits into it.
>I have studied countless traditions, all around the world, and I have yet to experience anything that any of them promise.
Shit dude, do you think the people who created those traditions had the "luxury" of reading through countless other traditions? No. Don't worry about that shit. You are getting caught up in surface level details. Pick a tradition you think sounds cool and stick with it. Devote yourself to the study of that practice.
>I need the actual secrets
If you have truly read through countless traditions then you should know the "actual secret". It's the one thing every tradition shares in common. Quit reading and start doing. If you could understand the truth by reading about it then we would all be enlightened by now.
>to shaping reality /x/ or anything, anything at all, that might be able to point me in that direction.
Lucid dreaming
>It's the one thing every tradition shares in common.
They don't actually have anything in common though. New Agers say that they do but when you delve into each practice individually you find that there are groups with similar practices but a Southern Baptist Church, is drastically different from what is practiced in a Buddhist Temple, which is drastically different from Isese.
If these three practices have something in common; someone is going to have to spell it out for me.
>They don't actually have anything in common though.
Honestly I don't like to openly explain this because I don't want the karmic responsibilities of teaching you and bringing someone like Crowley into the world. I will say there is at least one tradition that explains all of this in terms even an idiot could understand.
Anyway if you really don't understand then keep reading about traditions. Don't worry about their lore, frick their lore. The Dao that can be told is not the eternal Dao.
The importance of it is non-existent unless you decide to devote yourself to that practice. Instead look at what they do. What is the similarities between Buddhist magic and Christian magic. Between Taoist magic and israeli magic. Between Shamanist magic and Hermetic magic or Vodou magic and Pagan magic?
If you look into these practices and see only contradictions then realize those contradictions are probably not why the magic works.
If you still can't figure it out then study lucid dreaming and come back later. Honestly the amount of people wanting super powers but neglecting dream work makes me fearful about what kind of psychopaths people are trying to become.
Keep pursuing Buddhism. Your problem is suffering, not a lack of psyker power to mind control people or make you have good luck. Siddhis and other supermundane abilities exist, but they are just side effects of enlightenment and not worth pursuing in their own right. Trying to use siddhis like clairvoyance or telepathy without Right View could lead to some really bad moral atrocities.
The secret is that the ability to control fate and probability is a function of pure willpower and there's not a manual in the world that can impress upon the average person the mental state it takes to command the world to move. It's knowledge that stems from divine places, from spirits and ancestors, not from paper and words. The only effective path to learning this knowledge is meditation, mental control, and improving your perception so that you can communicate with these entities and learn what they have to teach you. Boring and annoying, huh? Well guess what, nobody wants Magic Man from Adventure Time running around reading minds, walking through walls, and hypnotizing people.
Anon, Catholicism is true.
>I really need a miracle
The exact reason why you're not getting one. Signs and miracles are for those with real faith. I'll paraphrase Christ in saying it's the adulterous generation that wants miracles. True now as they day He said it.
Hoping to 'get feelings' and quick fixes or sudden life-changing and organic experiences is folly
What you need to do first thing is self-reflect on your life and understand you aren't the main character. That's God.
Then, realize that just suddenly saying "Believe This" doesn't make that true about yourself.
Hopefully You'll come to the intellectual assent in this, and the faith will follow. I'm praying for you, Anon.
>organic
Meant to type orgasmic
What never really made sense to me about the Abrahamic faiths is; why would a perfect, all powerful, all knowing, and all loving being, create imperfect beings, and then torture them into being better? It just doesn't make sense to me.
You're looking at the picture wrong. God made a perfect world, then we ruined it. Free will is there because God didn't want automatons.
God doesn't torture us. We suffer the consequences of our actions. Not just my action for me our yours for you. But, all.
Some guy wants to save money in disposal procedures, so he dumps chemicals into the local water source. That gets mixed in some 10 part-per-million and someone manages to get cancer from the water supply.
We are created because God is an ever-flowing outpouring of Love.
Ok, so why did God create cancer?
I don't think that cancer existing has anything to do with free will...
Additionally, Christians say that we have free will, but what EXACTLY does that mean? Does it mean that we are free to do whatever we want to do? Because I am certainly not free to fly using my arms or the force of my farts, except maybe in a cartoon. Why are we allowed to hurt each other but we are not allowed to teleport to Pluto? Will must be free and that is why we have evil; but that doesn't sound free, so if we aren't truly free, why do we have evil? If we have to have SOME evil to know good, why do we have so much evil?
There are a lot of things that just don't make sense unfortunately.
He didn't. Explained it already. Death entered the world as sin did.
Your free will is the stewardship you have over your body and immortal soul. You can't teleport because you are not capable. It is decision making and acting out possible choices, not superpowers. Why not superpowers? Because you were not so endowed.
Evil is not a "have," but a lack. A lack of good, specifically.
You say "death/sin entered the world" but what about cancer specifically? Why cancer?
If free will is the stewardship we have over our body and immortal soul; isn't not only death but all types of diseases and deceptions a violation of our free will?
How can I have stewardship over my soul without direct knowledge of both God and my soul? Wouldn't any attempt to deceive or hide the truth from me be a violation of my free will in that case?
Already answered. Why so adamant about one of the billions of ways your body can break down or kick it? Death made this a possibility. It was not before that.
A violation of your free will is ultimately something you won't conceive of. What could simply described like being a puppet or programed like a PC.
You have knowledge of God. His Law is carved on your heart. Guilt, and the greater conscience, inform of this. Our intellectual capacity to search out for the greater and/or Truth is evidence.
You'd not have made a thread about finding and harnessing "the secrets" of the universe if this wasn't true.
Deducing the necessity of a prime mover, among other proofs, shows this. The strict nature and knowledge of God is muddled by our forebears that ruined our perfect world.
Yours is an ugly critique, not a search for truth so far.
There are miniscule elements of God's Truth in most all religions and some creeds--echos of 'what is.' You'd have clung to one by now if you were actually searching in good faith. But you haven't. It's pitiable, your situation.
Idk, it sounds like you can't really nail down what "free will" ACTUALLY is, and then, when questioned; you accuse me of not searching in good faith...
The fact of the matter is that if Christian doctrine is true, God created everything, with full knowledge of what was about to happen, that would make him, at least partially, responsible for everything that happens.
If I release a rabbid dog into a room full of kittens; the dog may be responsible, but I am the one who released it, and I bare some responsibility for it.
My main problem with Christians is that they want to attribute all of the good things to God, but none of the bad, while forgetting that he is all knowing and all powerful. I think to say that things couldn't be any other way is limiting the power of God, and the hard to refute phrase that "life isn't fair" contradicts the existence of an all knowing, all loving, and all powerful God.
> My main problem with Christians is that they want to attribute all of the good things to God, but none of the bad, while forgetting that he is all knowing and all powerful. I think to say that things couldn't be any other way is limiting the power of God, and the hard to refute phrase that "life isn't fair" contradicts the existence of an all knowing, all loving, and all powerful God.
The very rapid end result of examining the Christian god is that it's a completely arbitrary and tyrannical moral force. Most of its worshippers worship it because they think it's the biggest, baddest thing around and they fear it. They're not ethical actors, it's just a religion with endless fearmongering about eternal pain and damnation, using every hook possible to try and abuse people to join it. It's unfathomable that our majestic universe would be created at the hands of such a petty, immature, stupid creature as YHWH.
Idk, I think the Gnostics make a lot of sense... When I see/hear about things in this world like the rape and murder of children; I can definitely believe it was made by YHWH/Yaldabaoth...
>it's just a religion with endless fearmongering about eternal pain and damnation, using every hook possible to try and abuse people to join it.
And you'd think maybe that just developed recently, but you'd be wrong. Christianity's effect on the Roman Empire was to fast-track it to completely corrupt totalitarianism.
Well, I mean, I don't see how a religion that came to power through killing all of it's competition could be good.
I don't really care about good though, I care about effectiveness, that being said; I haven't seen anything from any of the Abrahamic Faiths that was effective either...
You MUST read "The Darkening Age."
It is a fricking indictment of Christianity.
There is one little section in which the author's anger and disgust overwhelms them, but other than that, it's just one fact after another with footnotes.
>It's unfathomable that our majestic universe would be created at the hands of such a petty, immature, stupid creature as YHWH.
This. Most christcucks have never read the old testament and seen how big of a punk this desert demon yahwe was.
> avoiding the question
> incoherent arguments
> pseud language about proofs
> insults about pitying the questioner
> worshipping an immoral desert war spirit because you're scared of him
Christianity!
I fricking hate you christcucks so much it's unreal. Op is clearly not interested in your desert death cult. Stop derailing the thread. Holy shit someone ban the christcucks eternally.
You believe cancer is just something evil you "get" that's trying to kill you, rather than seeing it as an emergency response from the body because something is wrong on a cellular level that prevent the body to function as it should producing energy (it's a metabolic dis-ease) . Yes, the cancer can kill you if the underlying problem isn't fixed, just like people have been given months to live just to follow some unapproved protocols with natural remedies and become completely cancer free.
Sure but why does it exist?
Why does our life have to be purchased with the life of something else?
Why do we have to drink water or die?
Why do we have to breathe or die?
Why are there so many ways for us to die?
And additionally, what exactly IS free will?
>Catholicism is true.
Why all the fricking of the children, then? Is the Catholic God the devil?
acim.org
Forgiveness.
Face east and assume a meditative position, interlace finger and put the thumbs together prints touching.
Then try to imagine something reaching out eastwards from your heart, I can't really explain it as it's not a normal sensation but you should be able to reach out with your soul so to speak.
Reach out and ask for the goddess Fariah to hear you and to be with you.
Simply ask for happiness, don't convolute it.
Maintain the connection to her for as long as you feel comfortable, you can organize your thoughts while doing so, just when you want to end be respectful and than her for hearing and being with you.
Give it a couple months and pay attention, it's not going to happen overnight and if won't be obvious. She can't force others around as it violated free will but she can create opportunities and the such.
I discovered a passion for music that was otherwise unrealized for my life up until I was 19, I stopped believing in coincidence and now look for signs of guidance.
I'm no longer suicidal, I have a purpose in life and I love my goddess.
I can offer no proof, but if you're really out of hope, what have you got to lose. I was actively trying to kill myself before I found her, maybe she can help you too.
>shaping reality
You can do that. Pick a paper and fold it. There you, you shaped reality.
Damn you /x/ people read too many books. By now you should understand some clue as to why people get sick. You should know that when you do proper work it is you asking nature/god for what you want, they will respond and mutate you. I gotta work now. I cant read all day like /x scholars
What are you trying to do?
I don't like going into that because people always want to interject with advice that I didn't ask for...
I guess I can make an exception here, but I won't be replying to anyone who tells me to just "move on", downplays my desire/resolve, or anything else in that vein. People may not fully understand why I feel the ways that I feel, and that's ok, but they do need to accept the importance of this issue to me and not try to divert me from it, if someone doesn't want to help; that is fine, but they should avoid harassing me with unhelpful advice that I didn't ask for. I'm sorry if I am sounding rude here, but this preamble is very necessary to avoid a cacophony of people who just don't get it chiming in with unhelpful cliches.
My main issue, and the thing that I have been trying to achieve for roughly 20 years now, can effectively be summed up as a spell for an SP, and maybe a money spell, but that is secondary.
Mark 11:23-24.
I think that if belief were the ONLY factor; insane asylums would be much more dangerous places than they currently are.
The Bible is more true than what you think goes on in the head of the insane.
I'm not saying it's not, what I'm saying is that if belief was the ONLY factor, people who are convinced of a delusion due to a mental illness would make that delusion manifest through the strength of their conviction.
The only miracle i experienced as such was the deus ex machina of GOD making me know he exists. I cant recommend it because he forgot (lets call it that) to also make me believe in him lmao. So what am I supposed to be john constantine?
Could you explain in a little more detail what you mean?
I have only heard the term Deus ex Machina referenced in terms of AI.
Deus ex machina (/ˌdeJəs ɛks ˈmækJnə, ˈmɑːk-/ DAY-əs ex-MA(H)K-in-ə,[1] Latin: [ˈdɛ.ʊs ɛks ˈmaːkʰJnaː]; plural: dei ex machina; English "god from the machine")[2][3] is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly or abruptly resolved by an unexpected and unlikely occurrence.[4][5] Its function is generally to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending or act as a comedic device.[6]
I have never held strong religious or spiritual beliefs. GOD made me know he exists but did not otherwise change me or validate any sort of structured religious or spiritual beliefs. The act of flipping that switch was like a deus ex machina: a plot device used, often inappropriately, to resolve a story. Thats the closest thing to a miracle i have personal experience with. Besides having sex iykwim lmao
I get you, I believe I had a similar experience...
Just *WHAM* God exists, now figure out what that means without any other context... Lol
>I half-heartedly dabbled in dozens of contradictory traditions and accomplished nothing
Gee, you don't say.
Someone within those traditions should have accomplished something... I haven't seen that either... Heard plenty of stories but no cold, hard, evidence...
The only thing I have seen that has convinced me that SOMETHING is going on that we don't understand is when I was a kid the car started in a graveyard...
Outside of worshipping a death God, I'm not sure what exactly the people criticizing my methods expect of me... Can they, following one tradition, do any better than I can? I haven't seen anything to suggest that is the case...
Do you have a goal? You'll never reach your destination if you don't know where you're going or else you'll end up driftig aimlessly hoping you'll drift ashore somewhere that might be better than where you came from.
Only when you start to follow your dream with a clear goal in your mind and desire in your heart will reality start to conform to your will and intention.
I answered that question earlier.
Your feelings affirm your subconscious beliefs. You probably have some childhood trauma (doesn't have to be something big) causing blockage in your subconscious, not feeling worthy of love or similar.
Sounds like your desire comes from a place of need and desperation, which isn't attracting/magnetic.
I feel like everyone deserves love, even people who are way worse than I am, so no; I don't think that is the case... I know that seems to be a common theme, but that isn't what is going on with me.
Have you tried getting a job?
Have you tried figuring out why your parents don't love you?
Some parents are incapable of looking at another living being with kindness and/or benevolence.
Just get a job m8 it's great, works for me anyway.
Already got a job, and it pays way better than "internet edgelord" or whatever your official job title is...
>all around the world, and I have yet to experience anything that any of them promise.
Studied or actually practiced. Even basic b***h a-bit-above-new-age-bullshit quality book explaining basics and giving you some simple exercises will do.
But you actually have to put in effort, daily. I am not doing so and I've experienced some minor shit during my practice and all I did was apply crap from a handful of okay books, hardly any "studying countless traditions, all aroun the world".
So don't expect any cheat code, some ultimate method. Either go seek an accomplished master who'd accept you or sit your access and actually start meditating. Otherwise it's like reading about boxing - lots of interesting info them on technique, diet, exercise but in the end you still have to actually develop your body and technique by throwing those punches - and an amateur who does practice, assuming he just got only as much theory as to not hurt himself - will likely do better than someone who read all the books on the topic but never moved his ass, never applied, tested, verified and sometimes rejected the shit he read
Oh, also, it's also something you should have read and studied as per many traditions - but remember that your goal, attitude and mental stance, even reasons for practice fricking matter. As is your moral spine, for many practices, somehow. Practicing for petty reasons and with bad mindset may literally sabotage all your practice.
I have devoted myself to a couple different practices, I'm not doing that again without proof, I only have 80 years on this planet, I don't have time to go chasing every rumor of a goose for 30 years before I know if it works or not... If I'm not seeing anything within a month; I move on.
Again, if someone can show me that there is something out there that is GUARANTEED to be worth more than a month or two of study; I will practice it, but I simply don't have the time to go chasing fairy tales...
Anon, I am unsure you're in a good place for it then. I did some meditation and other basic b***h shit that is practically guaranteed to be safe since almost any tradition benefits from it and I already had some albeir minor but "alright, there's some weird shit" experiences. And, I underline, I am more of a dabbler than a serious, devoted practitioner. If you really devoted yourself to stuff and didn't get anything at all, something's fishy.
I also am very much unsure how can anyone prove to you their shit works on a random tibetan fly-fishing forum like this one, unless you expect some really potent shit like anons teleporting into your room and slapping you across your face. In which case, you may never get what you want.
I have experienced some mental shifts through meditation.
Let me rephrase, I haven't found any THAUMATURGY that works, only mentalism.
If I am looking for a sense of oneness and insight, maybe a coping strategy; meditation is great. If I am trying to bend reality to my will; meditation has only ever disappointed...
It seems to me that the promise of miracles/siddhis are nothing but a bait and switch to get people to practice meditation... I'm open to being proven wrong though...
>tried everything
>refuses to stop watching anime
Not OP but anime's good shit, very nice medium of the story and far less brainrot in a lot of it than in average western work. It won't hurt anything unless you go full weeaboo about it.
Shut the frick up you fat pedophile.
So, are you moronic or is this just a bait? Either way, nothing of value, random insult discarded.
Probably best to not feed the trolls... That's why I never replied...
You fedora tipping, diaper wearing grease hog. You'll never be Japanese.
Just read THE URANTIA BOOK. All of the secrets of reality are explained
You have sleep paralysis, don't ask how I know.
The only miracle I grant is the ability to call on Jesus Christ to fix it.
DO NOT call on me!!!!!!
I actually don't, but I was trying to intentionally induce it a few years back as a technique for manifestation...
Be faithful to yourself really, then everything that you have of yourself until now and also have learned about knowledge will start to work when you see that there is something that opposes that feeling. That's when you have to fight against it and even if everything becomes dark there is a light that never goes away. When you really choose, because of that struggle, you will understand that what you need or long for will not be in specific things or powers, but rather what you really need to be more and more yourself, and that love and fidelity will always give you what you need. let it be from the heart. (my English is not excellent, I hope it helps you, good luck)
I understand this, and I might go for inner peace in the future, but right now I am interested in powers.
Call it an experiment.
>I have yet to experience anything that any of them promise
If I were God I wouldn't give you anything based on this
Are you God? If you aren't then it doesn't matter does it.
i don't know who that is anymore
I feel like when someone asks for powers and people tell them to learn acceptance, they are basically just telling them to manage their expectations...
I mean, if you can't do what I'm asking for, that's cool, I can't either, but please don't try to bait and switch me into giving up on my goals thinking you know what's best for me.
>posting on the nb's board
>not reporting spam
>disrespecting the nb
shiggy
Any practice (for the most part) is only as powerful as your will+belief+inner strength. You need to go through the act of inner mastery.
Try pranayama which enlivens your Kundalini flow. The chakras will open and you will feel intense bliss like me. Couple with intense focused meditation and achieve absorption and you're gonna have total bliss very quickly. Good l-uck.
Well, I'm not really looking for bliss necessarily...
I'm looking to manipulate reality through metaphysical means...
I do understand that all desire is ultimately an illusion and that nothing, external from themselves, can make a person happy...
Happiness just isn't my goal in this endeavor...
Pray to Jesus Christ
Yeah... What do you do if you've already done that?
I can't just keep talking to an empty room for 30 years before I see some results...
You rely on your works for salvation and expect to see signs and wonders. It's a free gift. Ask for it and God will give it to you. The only thing you need to do is to have faith and believe Christ died for your sins and rose the third day. Jesus is God. See: Ephesians 2:8-9
Yeah, I KNOW that is bullshit...
Already asked... Guess I just didn't believe hard enough right?
Nah, prove it's real... Not wasting my time chasing wild angel-shaped geese...
Read The Darkening Age for a blow-by-blow account of Christianity's violent rise to power and mass conversions at spearpoint.
Fricking garbage slave religion that laid the groundwork for this fricking absolute shitshow we live in now.
Oh but Christianity is what gave us western morality!
*quietly sweeps the fact that we were social animals before Christianity under the rug*
Classical philosophy was fricking LIGHT YEARS ahead of Christianity in terms of moral and ethical obligations. I can't help but think these minds were influenced by their polytheism. Guess we'll never know because Christian terrorists destroyed 98% of classical knowledge.
>filled with Christian and Buddhist zealots trying to convert you
Sad time to come to /x/ for magic advice.
All I can say is Shiva is better to ask for material things than Krishna.
>clawing through the noise of christcuck moronation to find some semblance of peace or meaning
Welcome to my first 40 years of life.
And then you find out that any place that manages that gets drowned by the idiots demanding everyone be Buddhist and viewed through their practices and trradition.
A little light buddhism isn't harmful. I also like the stoics. I don't meditate, but need to start. I no shit have been thinking about making my own religion, something polytheist with symbolism and light ritual. My invented religion would be equally as proveable and legitimate as any other ever created, though mine would borrow elements all the way from proto-indo-european to Egypt to even wicca and thelema cringe.
At that point, aren't you just practicing Chaos Magick?
I mean, yes, absolutely, but I don't refer to Chaos Magick by name, based on the pedo problem those guys seem to have. Abuse of children is an obvious unforgiveable evil which should be punished with a swift uneventful death.
On another subject, have you ever managed to make sense of any of the John Dee and subsequent demon lists and sigils stuff, or was it really just some uber-nerd cryptography with a heaping helping of sodomy?
Didn't realize they had a pedo problem...
From what I understand Edward Kelly was a pretty questionable figure. Dude had cropped ears, which was a punishment for con-artists at the time, he claimed to be able to turn lead into gold and failed, and then there is the whole wife-swap fiasco...
Honestly; I wouldn't be surprised if it was never intended to make sense...
Maybe this is a little harsh but have you seen the ghost hunter south park episode? That's what I imagine was going on at The Golden Dawn when they were looking into Dee and Kelly's work...
Then there is also the fact that Uriel just so happened to give Dee an Obsidian Mirror around the time that Europe was first exploring America, where natives were using Obsidian Mirrors?
I want to ask Dee "Did Urial come in on a trade ship stinking like salt and rum?" lol
The Golden Dawn were seriously embarrassingly dorky and cringe.
I can't find anything in their ideology that isn't just freemasonry for social outcasts, nerds and dorks.
Keep in mind the popularity of Masonry among the ruling elite at the time.
>A little light buddhism isn't harmful.
Neither is a little light Christianity. But it never stops at "a little light" with either group.
>I don't meditate
I bet you DO, but have been told that only one specific way (Buddhist ways) for one specific goal is the only thing that is "real" meditation.
Meditation is deliberate focus of awareness.
You telling me you've never done that?
>You telling me you've never done that?
No friend, I've done a few methods, finding that the breath techniques are the most useful for affecting physiological serenity and mental quiet.
I use a breathing/meditation technique to fall asleep every night.
I don't current meditate intentionally, meaning i don't sit in a quiet place and focus my mind on a single thing or thought or purpose or intent. I don't try to tap into the great unconscious or understand the Monad, or try to affect reality through my will. I just don't. I should.
I'm mostly lazy and spend too much of my free time reading occult shit and watching absurdist comedy.
>i don't sit in a quiet place and focus my mind on a single thing or thought or purpose or intent
But in that very post you said you DO do that. You focus on your breath to calm and sleep better.
>I don't try to tap into the great unconscious or understand the Monad, or try to affect reality through my will.
This is what I mean. That is only ONE way to meditate, gfor ONE goal.
It is NOT the entirety of meditation.
What you do to fall asleep IS MEDITATION.
Boers use a form of meditation to gain confidence in their next match.
Students use meditation to help solidify their understanding of material.
There are MANY ways to meditate to MANY different reasons.
Dont let the Buddhists and others tell you otherwise.
It's like a Christian saying only they can define God, and only they can show you how to pray.
What do you think would happen if a person meditated on something like Siddhis for long enough?
Why are they meditating on them? Do they want to obtain siddhis?
Yes... Ideally... Lol
I accept that siddhis are real, though I dont know if anyone starting in this age could obtain them.
But if possible, then meditating on them and what they imply about body-mind-self connections can get you there.
I think there are various mantras you could meditate on to help you along, as well as incorporating the other recommended activities to gain control over the mind and body.
Or they are picking up from where they left off in a previous life.
But yeah, siddhis are side effects of mystical advancement and understanding of the subtle and more subjective ways the universe works, and it's going to take a lot longer to try and jump right to them instead of working through the recommended processes.
They'd get frustrated that they're trying to skip about 14 stages of attainment to play with metaphysical toys.
Not everything is meditation, in the traditional sense of raja yoga for it to qualify as meditation it needs to present dharana (unwavering concentration) after having achieved pratyahara (dissociation of the bodily senses).
What you do before you go to sleep isn't meditation, allowing the mind to wander without an object of meditation won't serve any purpose, ever, it isn't concentration, it isn't relaxation, it isn't meditation. It's what's known as the barrier of laya (unconsciousness). The awareness needs to be mounted on an object of meditation that serves as a vehicle to cross the barrier of laya.
>Not everything is meditation
A gave a clear definition for what meditation is. It does not include everything.
>in the traditional sense of raja yoga
And like the Buddhists, raja yoga does not define all meditation.
>allowing the mind to wander
Meditation is deliberate focus of awareness.
That awareness could very well be on the wanderings of the mind.
How reliable would you say working with Shiva is?
Cant say, never bothered with it. He is easily pleased, and easily displeased. Many look to Ganesha first to help remove obstacles. But Shiva is also tolerant of all sorts of nonsense and will grant things he knows arent really helpful to you.
Ask Vishnu, and He will decide what He thinks is best for you, and completely ignore your request if He wants.
>Bhagavat Purana 10.88.1: King Parīkṣit said: Those demigods, demons and humans who worship Lord Śiva, a strict renunciant, usually enjoy wealth and sense gratification, while the worshipers of the Supreme Lord Hari, the husband of the goddess of fortune, do not.
>10.88.3: Śrī Śukadeva said: Lord Śiva is always united with his personal energy, the material nature. Manifesting himself in three features in response to the entreaties of nature’s three modes, he thus embodies the threefold principle of material ego in goodness, passion and ignorance.
>4: The sixteen elements have evolved as transformations of that false ego. When a devotee of Lord Śiva worships his manifestation in any one of these elements, the devotee obtains all sorts of corresponding enjoyable opulences.
>10.88.8: Lord Hari said: If I especially favor someone, I gradually deprive him of his wealth. Then the relatives and friends of such a poverty-stricken man abandon him. In this way he suffers one distress after another.
>9: When he becomes frustrated in his attempts to make money and instead befriends My devotees, I bestow My special mercy upon him.
>10: A person who has thus become sober fully realizes the Absolute as the highest truth, the most subtle and perfect manifestation of spirit, the transcendental existence without end. In this way realizing that the Supreme Truth is the foundation of his own existence, he is freed from the cycle of material life.
That's the problem with this shithole. You want a miracle? Actualize yourself first. Develop yourself. Cultivate your mind, body, and soul. All these gays tell you that you can experience this or that, but don't tell you that the path begins through hard work and discipline. I personally got where I am spiritually through astral protection and training my mind's eye like I would any muscle. It would be a good place to start. Build a strong base, sense of self and will before you start to frick with secrets of the universe or you'll end up like one of those vegetable druggies. Challenge yourself and start simple. If your third eye is a receptor, build the muscle.
Yeah, but what method do I use?
If someone else tells me
>That's the problem with this shithole. You want a miracle? Spend 30 years with your thumb in your ass.
Who should I believe?
Your ideas are competing against shit like the Abramelin which is an 18 month ritual... I don't have time to work on astral projection, meditation, and perform all the Abramelin-like rituals in existence before I can know if I'm even on the right path...
Your ideas are competing against shit like the Abramelin which is an 18 month ritual... I don't have time to work on astral projection, meditation, and perform all the Abramelin-like rituals in existence before I can know if I'm even on the right path...
A convincing argument could be made that a person following the Abramelin ritual (if not altogether impossible - have you read that shit?) is doing everything they can to trigger mental illness in their own brain and remove themselves for civilization to wallow in insanity.
I don't know shit, though.
No, I haven't read all of it... I heard that it was an 18 month ritual and decided that someone was going to have to prove it's value to me before I was going to care about it...
There is naive, then there is gullible, then after that there is whatever people who attempt the Abramelin without proof of it's value are... Lol
That doesn't mean that one way is better than the other. I have a more selfish approach. I learned to feel things more deeply. I would consciously try to take as much in as I could, I'd look at nature and feel things there are no words to describe, things I would describe as old and ancient. I utilized the momentum gained from those experiences to enter a state of mind and peace where I could create worlds in my head, places and environments of perfect harmony that would allow me to attain great peace and personal insight and inspiration. It was also the foundation for entering into conscious sleep/dream states and astral projection. I didn't go in looking for answers. People all have different paths and insights into reality and many aren't gonna dedicate themselves to an 18 stage ritual. Maybe if I had a master I'd embark on the journey. I usually just try to keep things simple and give them the tools they need to get the magic back.
You want cheat codes, right? Shortcuts?
Sure, science has given us the ability to cheat a bit. Enjoy astral projecting with only the most basic defenses, no emotional control to recover from problems, and no relationship with higher vibrational beings.
The Gateway process / Hemi Sync directly replicates the brainwave effects of transcendental meditation.
Note that after the first few tapes the Monroe Institute went batshit insane into absolute nonsense new ageism, which is typical when dealing with spirits without a strong locus of control against hallucinations, astral distortions, and lying low vibrational spirits.
This CIA paper describes how the Gateway process works, the nature of the universe, what the storehouse consciousness / Absolute is, and what you're actually doing in transcendental meditation to access omniscience.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/cia-rdp96-00788r001700210016-5
Want to cheat and know where you are on the grand scale of spiritual progress?
https://www.vipassanadhura.com/sixteen.html
By the time you're able to frick yourself up with this knowledge you'll probably be in contact with at least one spiritual teacher. Just stay away from the psychedelics and drugs, combining them with transcendental hacks is a great way to ruin your brain.
>I need the actual secrets to shaping reality
>I am beginning to lose all hope that my life might improve, and there is no way I can endure 50-60 more years
Bro, I'm in the same situation but you have to understand that you are just going to be trolled, gaslit, or misled in this space.
Nobody has any real knowledge here, it's mostly just a bunch of delusional guys tricked by a placebo effect, mental illness, cognitive biases, etc. They have no tested "feats" for any of the abilities they believe they have.
Or worse, it's someone who doesn't take the occult seriously that is intentionally trolling you with some shit they made up or some book they randomly googled.
There might be 5 legit occultists/magicians that maybe browse this forum once a month for fun, and they get off to laughing at strugglers like ourselves, and they aren't ever going to give us any information.
Our only choice is to just keep hoping and practicing, and hopefully one day we find something legit.
But I already have it as a possibility in the back of my mind that I may end up laying on my deathbed having never found any "real magic". I can only hope that there's some kind of "isekai" waiting for me on the other end, because the real magic in this world is being hoarded by a select few, and you can't blame them, the less people that have magic, the more privileged and powerful you are.
If everybody can manipulate reality, then essentially nobody can manipulate reality.
I THINK I've gotten a few good recommendations recently, and I'm so tired of trying shit and it not working that I procrastinate a lot, I haven't even began testing the most recent thing, and the person who recommended it spoke a lot differently than the usual poster here, they were being very objective, but even then, after years of being tricked and misled, you really just get tired of trying.
I'm going to start tomorrow, and I'll keep trying because this actually matters to me, but it's still so annoying.
What did they say?
Feel free to add me on discord; maybe we can compare notes. Two heads are better than one.
Username: deeredman1991
I just messaged you.
bump
Good talk in the discord, keep in touch, hopefully someone pops into this thread can give me specifically what I'm looking for.
For anyone reading. I'm looking for specific and effective training methods for two specific mental training exercises.
1. Have you practiced Dharana (concentrating on a single thought for a prolonged period without ANY mental interruptions) - The period (goal) is 5 minutes or more.
2. Dhyana (emptying the mind of all thoughts for a prolonged period without ANY mental interruptions) - The period (goal) is 5 minutes or more.
I'm hoping that someone will stumble along and recommend a specific books or even some unknown exercises that they've done that helped them progress with these two exercises.
One method I dont think is mentioned enough is achieving that state through action. Entering a flow state via playing music, yoga, exercise. Basically the idea is that you get so connected with the motions and movement of your body that the mind ceases, instinct takes hold and you become what you're doing. I feel that's a good starting point for people who have a hard time shutting their mind off by sitting on the floor and wishing for it to be so. Once you understand the state, you can build on it with contemporary meditation afterwords.
Alrighty, so then how does one go from a flow state into manifesting their desires?
If you want to see real, meaningful change, you're going to have to actually do the work. You know what that entails. For probably almost all of us, that means actually meditating and actually reading. Scrolling dumb shit, playing vidya, cooming, eating shitty foods and gossiping with normalgays can all be fun, but none of that actually furthers your goals, does it?
If meditation and reading did the job in anything resembling a reasonable time frame; I would be an enlightened master by now...
I'm not saying never, but I am going to need cold, hard, proof that I am not wasting my time before going back down that road...
I'm not sure what to tell you guys. The more I read and meditate, the more I figure out what to do intuitively or why what I'm doing does have some precedent. If you're not able to do that, then it seems like the Gnostic or Tantric path isn't really what you should be aiming for. If you're not just putting together everything on your own, it might actually be better to just join some orthodox group. I personally dislike this kind of advice similarly, but in my experience, it's been a very intuitive process and the further along I get, the more I confirm for myself that what I'm doing is appropriate and leading toward something.
If you're looking for magical powers like some Marvel movie, you're probably going to be disappointed. At least at first, the big changes you'll notice will revolve around your internal monologue, how you react to things and you'll generally be more cognizant of what you're doing instead of just reacting all the time.
Are you practicing breathing daily and also making funny pictures in your head? You don't have to wave around animal dicks outside and chant Hebrew if you don't want to, but you do at least have to do something every day, even if that's yoga while doing light exercise, progressing your reading lists and getting adequate sleep.
If you're just sitting around scrolling TikTok in between reading a book every other month and wondering why you're not shooting fireballs out of your hands yet, then I think the issue is pretty obvious.
Let me ask you something, have you PERSONALLY achieved anything doing using your method?
If so then show us something... Tell me my name... Dump a truck full of dildos on my front lawn... Hell, just astrally show up and open my third eye with a spiritual crowbar...
If not, then why recommend your practice? Isn't doing so a little premature?
My practice isn't something you can do because you're not occupying the same sequence of experiences as I am. How could you know to intuitively weave practices together in a way that it manifests the way I can? My practice isn't for you and it's not for someone else. This is why I suggested you look up a cookie cutter Magick build and follow that template. If you want to "change your class" later on, you're going to be able to whenever if you want to follow the Intuitive path. Otherwise, you're going to feel like this until you decide to actually commit to something and decide that you're going to make it work no matter what.
Also keep in mind this is why so many people for so long were huge homosexuals about teaching people about magick; loads of them knew others weren't capable of the same kinds of things they and their kin can perform and thus weren't eager to walk anyone else through what they're doing.
I didn't ask you to teach me your practice, I asked you to show me the potential results of finding my own practice, using the methods that you are suggesting...
I already outlined some insights into changes I experienced early on here
>the big changes you'll notice will revolve around your internal monologue, how you react to things and you'll generally be more cognizant of what you're doing instead of just reacting all the time.
If you guys are doing this shit just so you can go invisible and hang out in the girls' lockeroom, you have the wrong idea. The idea of "doing magick" isn't to learn to shoot laser beams or grow gills. This isn't some comic book. It sounds like you're just pissed I'm telling you that you probably won't get any cool siddhis. You can ask this question as many times as you want and I'm still not going to eagerly explain how you can talk to animals like Eliza Thornberry if you just do the right affirmations and don't jerk off for five weeks.
I didn't say tell me the results... I said SHOW me the results...
If you don't have any results to show you are talking about mentalism, which is exactly what I said that I didn't want in my OP...
You're coming on here acting like you have all the answers and can do all this shit when really you are just derailing the conversation with something I specifically said I am not asking for and don't care about...
If you don't believe that siddhis and legitimate powers exist; that is your belief, but don't try to derail those of us who are actually looking for them and get us going off on some wild goose chase for enlightenment or some shit... Yeah, inner peace is all fine and good, but we will worry about the it later, right now we are actual crazy people, trying to shoot actual lightning, out of our actual buttholes...
No you didn't, moron.
If you'd actually read my posts, you'd see that I said it "starts out this way". I'm not saying siddhis don't exist or can't. I'm saying I haven't yet. You sound miserable.
If you haven't done it, then how do you know your method is the way to do it, you have a feeling? What the frick kind of proof is that supposed to be? Also what happened to "If you're expecting super powers... Rah Rah Rah!"
Why are you giving advice on how to do something that you can't do, but also why are you telling people they can't do something and then giving advice on how to do it, but is really advice on some other bullshit, but might lead to powers down the road, but you don't know that because you don't actually have any tangible powers...
Siddhis exist, nobody can achieve them, my practice works for me, but I can't do anything tangible. You're a fountain of double speak. You don't know which way is up...
>Let me ask you something, have you PERSONALLY achieved anything doing using your method?
I have to agree, I've seen a lot of responses like what
said, and when you ask these guys what kind of life they live, they are just another wage slave like every other person on the planet that has never practiced spirituality or the occult. They don't have any tangible (useful) abilities, they have no spiritual/occult feats under their belt, etc.
Too many people say "this is the right path" and their reasonings are pointless things like:
>I feel like I have more energy
>I have become enlightened (has no objective criteria for what that means)
>I have premonitions of the future (are always symbolic and never give a specific date or time)
>I can do energy healing (has no objective criteria for what this means and has never tested it)
Etc, etc, etc......
It just sounds like a bunch of fluff to me.
You and I both know he's just going to respond with something like - "You aren't worthy to know" or the cliche "You are supposed to do the training to attain the abilities and NOT use them" lol. Imagine going to the gym and lifting weights and never putting on muscle or losing weight, would you continue?
A lot of this stuff just becomes so cliche and humorous at a certain point.
>"You aren't worthy to know"
Yeah, that was basically the reply...
>My practice isn't something you can do because you're not occupying the same sequence of experiences as I am.
>Also keep in mind this is why so many people for so long were huge homosexuals about teaching people about magick; loads of them knew others weren't capable of the same kinds of things they and their kin can perform and thus weren't eager to walk anyone else through what they're doing.
topkek
It's not about you being deemed worthy or not. I'm saying that you're not me and can't just intuitively do my practice, which I've explained in probably four posts now was created by me completely intuitively. Anon said, "no wait, I was asking this other thing"
, but I then reminded him that the post he responded to before already contained the answer to that question.
It seems clear now you're just trolling.
>that means actually meditating and actually reading
I really don't get responses like this baka.
You've basically said nothing if you're not telling OP what specific meditations work and what specific books are worth reading.
You're just sending people on a wild goose chase of endlessly jumping from book to book, and never getting anywhere, which is what OP is likely already doing and trying to change.
>Honestly I don't like to openly explain this because I don't want the karmic responsibilities of teaching you and bringing someone like Crowley into the world.
LMAO at the gaslighting and trolling. Good luck
, you'll have a lot of reading and filtering to do in this thread.
Life doesn't matter anymore and it has become very obvious everywhere you go.
You can feel it when you are out in public, no one gives a frick about anything anymore. Even normies are blackpilled husks now.
I go to work and basically just do nothing. I don't give a shit if they fire me, it literally doesn't matter at this point. I'm poor if I'm NEETing and poor if I work full time. This society is pointless.
No community, no property, no families, no future.
>Even normies are blackpilled husks now.
Ok, this is definitely a copypasta, I've seen this exact post before and argued against this exact line.
No, normies are not black pilled, not even close. You might mean red pilled.
Black pilled is a man giving up on dating entirely and accepting a sexless life, or deciding to use prostitution as his sexual outlet for the rest of his life.
Red pillers still date, still get married, still have children, etc, they are just more conscious and aware than blue pillers, but their behaviors haven't really changed, they just employ more security measures.
>still get married, still have children,
kek check marriage rates, divorce rates and fertility rates, all the data is there
you are deluded, every country is importing millions of immigrants every year, even musk can't stop talking about fertility and children on his shitty platform
>kek check marriage rates, divorce rates and fertility rates, all the data is there
Despite that men are still doing it and they aren't going to stop, and if anything you are kinda just making the point that most normies are blue pilled than black pilled.
>you are deluded, every country is importing millions of immigrants every year
That's because people are having less and less children, not because people are having less relationships. They just aren't getting married, but they are still fricking and having children. But having 5+ children for financial reasons isn't the norm anymore because modern society is safer and easier to live in. You don't need a lot of children to help with farming, protection, etc.
Nah, I think he's right actually, I think normies are getting black pilled, even if they aren't all the way there yet, Drizzle Drizzle is a great example of men just not giving a frick anymore...
Ironically I think that the mainstreaming of black pill ideology is actually just a manifestation of the mass spiritual awakening that people keep talking about.
Black pill is men starting to see through the Illusion of Maya when it comes to dating and deciding that the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Hell MGTOW calls their highest tier "Monk Mode"... I don't think that is a coincidence...
>Drizzle Drizzle is a great example of men just not giving a frick anymore...
1. Drizzle Drizzle is satire (it's about mocking women and the Sprinkle Sprinkle movement/mindset)
2. That's at best red pilled, not blue pilled. But again, if the same guys doing this shit are still just going to get scammed by the system anyways, it's nothing but posturing.
If a guy is talking a bunch of red pilled shit but he still gets married at some point in his life, it was nothing but talk
If a guy is talking a bunch of red pilled shit but he gets a woman pregnant knowing how the system works, and gets put on child support, it was nothing but talk.
Actions matter, not words. A lot of men are going to posture, and boast, and talking about how alpha they are, and how they will never fall in love, etc.
3. So long as women have a monopoly over sex, and men want it, women are the ones with the leverage, so most men are going to follow their rules.
Real change doesn't take place without technological (like birth control), judicial, and social advancements.
When men get a male birth control pill I'll agree with your predictions. When prostitution starts getting legalized in all states I'll agree with your predictions.
But right now women have too much power and leverage over sex and reproduction for most men to ever be red pilled much more black pilled.
Men are just puffer fishes right now, inflating themselves up to look big and dangerous, but it's all air. Behind the camera they are living simp lives, and that's most men, even your favorite red pill celebrity/guru. The shit that happened recently with Fresh&Fit is proof of that.
Fresh is the ultimate simp.
>Saying "she loves me for me" about a woman that only went on a date with him because he invited her to a yacht, after rejecting him when he first asked
>Fricking a random prostitute raw and probably getting her pregnant (Myron did this too despite warning men with his typical "muh red pill" talk)
I mean, a world exists outside of the west man. If you can afford a girlfriend or prostitute, then you can afford to travel, and if you can't then you never mattered anyway...
Until recently people made fun of mail order brides, now becoming a passport bro is the "cool" thing to do. The difference is that the dating market has globalized...
>Hell MGTOW calls their highest tier "Monk Mode"... I don't think that is a coincidence...
That's because it's not. They're funneling normalgays into Buddhism and anti-natalism. Now, I like the first one and admittedly more than I thought I would, but the second one just makes your bloodline void and you an idiot.
>the juice isn't worth the squeeze
I keep hearing/seeing this. Not sure why.
>Drizzle drizzle
>black pill
You don't seem to know what these things mean, anon. "Black pill" is just a reframe of blue pill from the Matrix meme. It's actually just Red Pill and Blue Pill and letting the meme get co-opted was moronic. Anyway, "drizzle drizzle" is a satire and this isn't men "not giving a frick anymore", it's men pulling an uno reverse on thots, trying to get them to understand their hypocrisy and that they're not really that impressive.
There are some black pill men who are adopting soft guy era as an ACTUAL movement... Those are the people I was referring to... Maybe it's not all of them, but compare that to 10 years ago...
I mean, actually compare how men are behaving today vs 10 years ago... Call the pill color whatever you want but men are definitely waking up, abandoning the illusion that a relationship will make them happy, and instead searching for inner peace...
This is why I drew the distinction - it's become very clear I was right in my assessment. I wasn't just being pedantic.
>It just sounds like a bunch of fluff to me.
I explicitly said, "if you're looking for Marvel movie super powers, you're probably wasting your time." Maybe you missed that. I even outlined the proper contrast, which speaks to my own experiences. Check out
, the post you tagged, but didn't seem to read.
You know a lot of occult guys don't want to talk about their practice because it's important to them to keep it to themselves for personal reasons, right? It's like sharing your diary with people. Some that practice theurgy insist it's apart of an arrangement you can make with different entities. Some don't explain it because they've had poor experiences with people like you, who demand they give you a rundown (despite showing your clear lack of intent to put in effort), only to call you crazy, a witch or something stupid, as a result.
Once again, I don't claim to be able to fly or turn things into spaghetti on a whim.
>"if you're looking for Marvel movie super powers, you're probably wasting your time."
That's a strawman, it's not about marvel super powers, it's about you actually being able to do SOMETHING, being able to do ANYTHING, that is significant, that you would not be able to do if you had not done your training.
I'll go back to the gym example again. If you are telling other people to do X routine with X diet that you've been doing for years, and you look frail, emaciated, and you are of low health, you don't actually have any reason to be so confident in your training method and you are actually very delusional.
It would be ridiculous for that person to say - "if you're looking to become stronger and healthier, you're probably wasting your time" when someone asks them about their gym routine lol.
THAT'S THE MAIN REASON PEOPLE GO TO THE GYM!
>You're coming on here acting like you have all the answers and can do all this shit when really you are just derailing the conversation with something I specifically said I am not asking for and don't care about...
Exactly. Like I told you before, expect to be mostly gaslit and trolled in these threads. You will very rarely encounter individuals that offer any good advice.
I've created a lot of threads like yours and it's rare to get a good book recommendation that actually helps you, you'll encounter a lot more of the guys who try to say they have all the super secret knowledge but they won't tell you (which makes them posting to the thread pointless).
>I'm not saying siddhis don't exist or can't. I'm saying I haven't yet.
Then you are in no position to advise others, because you aren't using any objective criteria to gauge your progress.
To go back to the gym example. Someone can test that they are lifting heavier weights. But people like you use arbitrary and subjective criteria to gauge your "spiritual progress", and it's always some shit that can't be tested or observed (useless woo woo)
I think people like this are trying to convince themselves more than anything else...
Subconsciously, if they can convince someone else that what they are doing is worthwhile; this helps to legitimize their case...
>I think people like this are trying to convince themselves more than anything else...
Agreed. When they wake up and look in the mirror, and when they reflect upon their own results in life, reality is telling them that they are not what they think they are. So they need to take part in escapism like this, and larp as an enlightened sage, for the sake of keeping their hopes up.
Guys like this are just one step above "armchair magicians".
Armchair magicians read but never practice, but guys like him practice useless methods in futility and never get anywhere because they have no objective criteria to gauge their progress. The end result is the same for both groups, they never attain any abilities.
That's why the post above you says to go summon the guardian daimon. A lot of this bullshit simulacra LARP magic is half understood inheritance from a time when this practice was understood better, filtered through medieval Christendom with its hatred and suspicion of spirits.
You need divine help. Go summon your guardian daimon. Or guardian angel if you REALLY want to call it that!
You will need a basic understanding of how magic actually works. Go read Liber Null, it's available as a free PDF online. It's not very long and it's in plain speech with no bullshit.
However, the author is wrong about the Augoeides, and the benefits of working with spirits, as you'll see if you continue to actually perform it.
Next thing you will need is the Egyptian Magical Papyri, again it's a free PDF anyone can find with an easy Google search. The very first spell (with the embalmed falcon drowned in milk or what have you) is the one you want. Obviously you can't go and drown a falcon in milk and embalm it, so this will require some translation to your native psychic language, and to the tools you have available. THAT'S why I told you to read Liber Null.
I found that a token made of modeling clay and sealed in varnish (at the right point in the spell) worked just fine. Mine was a scarab, with its wings open at a 35 degree angle. (That angle is particularly important - Egyptians called it the Golden Angle.)
As you begin this process, the guardian daimon will begin reaching out to you in turn. It is imperative that you listen to it over anything else. To ease communication, an ouija board is initially useful. So is divination, I used tarot. Divination also can't lie, so you can use it to verify the daimon's words if you're feeling suspicious.
Before long you will be in full schizo psychic communication with it. Let it take the lead. Weed helps.
Trust me, this is worth it. Greeks thought magic was IMPOSSIBLE without the daimon. Crowley called it the most important spell a magician can perform. I'm sitting here telling you that it rescued me from a situation where I was poor, miserable and almost about to lose my house AND my wife (to deportation,) and now I haven't needed to work in 3 years, everything is secure, I am happy and my eyes are open.
I've read Liber Null before and have a fairly decent understanding of what Chaos Magick is trying to achieve.
Any way you can give me a quick rundown of the ritual?
I might give it a shot if it's not too crazy...
I am pretty skeptical of anything involving Crowley/The Golden Dawn ever since I found out about Edward Kelly but as long as it's quick, easy, and they don't have me up doing LBRPs for 80 days in a row just for them to tell me that I wasn't doing it right is why it didn't work... Lol
Go read the Papyri spell if you have doubts. Your familiarity with chaos magic will make it trivial to interpret. But sure, I can tell you the common factors I've noticed between me and the others I've helped to do this so far:
* Incubation of the occluded wish in the sun as it travels under the earth, achieved by ejection of the mantra into the setting sun, and "catching it in the amulet" at the next sunrise.
* A call and response with the universe in which natural intervention is required to continue the spell. It's always been birds so far, bird calls or bird presences that lead people to objects, most frequently stones or pieces of wood, from which the second talisman (the one described in more detail in the spell... Or is it one of the OTHER "summoning assistant daimon" Papyri spells? Good thing I'm summering it, huh.)
* The fashioning of what I see as a submission/mocking talisman from whatever object the magician was led to. This is the token that may be in this spell or may be in another variant, apologies for not being able to check right now due to phoneposting. Mine had an image of Abraxas encircled by Ouroboros carved into the front side, and a string of mocking laughter (it's somewhat abracadabrafied in the Papyri version but I literally used "HAHAHAHAHA") on the reverse side, covered by clay so that it cannot be seen.
* A "call to the moon and star" with both talismans together, culminating in the daimon's manifestation. Yes, this took the form of something like a hallucination, followed by the presence for ~9 months of something like a tulpa. This is schizo stuff, you can cope.
* Taking the daimon "into the narrow space in which you live" to form a contract with it. Carefully and exactly worded. Yes, this seems overly Hermetic, but my daimon insisted upon it and I'm glad he did, because initially his grasp of my priorities and boundaries was poor, likely due to having no real concept of death the way a mortal being does.
(cont.)
Hold on, you're talking about "things the magician was led to" as if I'm already in communion with spirits...
I don't have anyone to lead me to anything... I'm still trying to get to a point where I can communicate enough to be led to certain things.
(cont.)
* USE THE CONTRACTING TO NAME LOVED ONES AND STIPULATE THEIR PROTECTION. Also, at the contracting time, some kind of observer presence (a "child familiar" in the Papyri spell) seems to be required. In my case, as stupid as it sounds (who fricking cares) doing a dry run of the ritual in literally Minecraft with a heavily autistic friend watching sufficed. (I didn't plan this, it just emerged.) In a friend's case, his Dissociative Identity Disorder allowed a child alter to feature. (Again, unplanned, it just sort of happened.) Maybe a pet would do?
* Sharing food and alcohol with the daimon, and in every case so far, having an orgasm with it. Guess Christians whined about witches having sex with muh devil for a reason lol.
* Setting a way to call the daimon to you and then bidding it return to its heavenly home, SLEEPING and starting the real journey the next day by calling on it.
That's more or less it for the initiatory ritual to bring the daimon to you. You don't need me for the rest of it, just listen to the daimon. The summoning spell I laid out here should take about 3-7 days depending on your pace. I used astrological aspects in mine which is probably why it took closer to 7, but it wasn't an intensive all day Golden Dawn no fun fest, and it definitely wasn't Crowley's 6 month ordeal (which he abandoned halfway anyway kek)
Oh and I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER tell you to use the LBRP, because it uses YHVH as the divine name. This is an absolutely fricking lethal mistake and I can only imagine that Crowley continued allowing his followers to do it out of his usual jealous and guarded nature. YHVH is the furthest possible thing from a helpful presence to this process. If you need to draw stars, why not use the Liber Null 8 pointed one? It's super easy.
In case it isn't obvious, I don't put any stock at all in overblown complex LARP. I favour the path of least resistance - that's what Mercury SHOULD be.
Think magically. Do drugs!
That's interesting that you mention Minecraft. Could the entire ritual be done in Minecraft?
If so how would you recommend I perform it in Minecraft?
Feel free to add me on Discord, would love to discuss this more when/if you have time...
Username: deeredman1991
Good luck with that, but I'm not going to skip straight to trying to communicate with spirits/demons/angels or whatever invisible being that is more powerful than me when our relationship with these beings could very well be a predator vs prey relationship, and these rituals amount to us inviting them to dine on our energies.
It's like someone who has never owned a dog before, and knows nothing about dog behavior, buying an adult pitbull for their first pet.
>likely due to having no real concept of death the way a mortal being does.
What do you mean by "daimon" then because it doesn't sound like you summoned something intelligent that has lived for far longer than you. It sounds like you created egregore, because it makes no sense that a "demon" wouldn't already know about mortal deaths and how mortals perceive them.
>Think magically. Do drugs!
Lol what?. The best way to delude yourself into thinking you've done magic when you haven't, is to involve drugs in your occult practice.
>I'm not going to skip straight to trying to communicate with spirits/demons/angels or whatever invisible being that is more powerful than me when our relationship with these beings could very well be a predator vs prey relationship
I mean, yeah, it COULD be a predator/prey relationship, and given what I know about evolution/the laws of nature; I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was motivated by self interested...
At the same time, I'm probably a little crazier than most and nothing ventured nothing gained... Lol I'm looking at it as a high risk, high reward opportunity...
Nah bro, one of the reasons I even became interested in the occult is that I want to control my own destiny. I'm looking for a path that is the exact opposite of religion (being subservient to / dependent on some superior being).
If I can only use magic with the help of that being, it's not MY power, and it can likely be taken away from me the moment it decides it doesn't want to help me.
I'm seeking personal power for my own ends. Even if I could just snap my fingers right now and summon some kind of entity that will grant me wishes in trade of prayer I wouldn't take that deal lol. It would just be another kind of religion that I'm taking part in, atleast that God would actually be useful lol, but I'd still be completely at the mercy of someone else, and that's what I'm trying to avoid.
All I'll say is don't make any contracts haphazardly. That entity might try to re-word things to make it sound more appealing, but you can essentially end up under a slave contract if you aren't careful and specific about what you agree to, and how long it will last.
There's no point in enjoying a human lifetime of freedom and pleasure just to get enslaved to the whims of some entity after you die for 1000 years.
Good luck.
Yeah, for me personally, I am not as concerned about the methodology as I am the end result.
I also find that, often times; the things that people try to get you to avoid and scare you about are the very things that you need to make a beeline straight for if you are looking for truth or power.
But I understand your skepticism, if you are who I think you are; I will keep you posted!
Have you tried if you can get LoA and Manifestation stuff to work?
>Have you tried if you can get LoA and Manifestation stuff to work?
Yes, LoA is the most legit occult practice ever.
I used it to accomplish many of the amazing feats people brag about in the LoA general, like getting another wage slave job and climbing a ladder.
>if you are who I think you are
You know who. Don't forget to try the first exercises in the link. If it works I'll actually be surprised but it's going to be an annoying start. 30 minutes every night before sleeping for who knows how long, I'll give it 30 days, if I get no results I'm moving onto other things.
I read some of it, the first exercise sounded a lot like the gateway process, so I decided to do the first 2 videos of that last night.
I was able to remember my dream, which I have been trying to work on, and I did dream about hemi-sync oddly enough, did not go lucid as far as I'm aware... That's really the only thing I have to report today... Might do a couple more hemi-sync exercises later, might also just finish the whole series and see if anything happens...
>I read some of it, the first exercise sounded a lot like the gateway process
Which one are you talking about?
I was talking about the meditation exercise in "Step 1". The exercise for first attaining gnosis.
>I think that performing rituals over a digital medium like minecraft actually has a LOT of potential if we are talking about Chaos Magick.
I wouldn't waste my time, I'm trying to practice magic that isn't chaotic so that I actually have control, and I'm trying to practice magic in manner that I can measure and gauge my progress.
I honestly think they (the people who started it) just called it chaos magic because it sounded "cool" or "edgy" lol. But everytime I read about it, it just sounds like some LoA garbage. You have to perform a ritual and then somehow forget about something that you deemed important enough to do a ritual for (really convoluted logic, because if I bothered doing a ritual I definitely care about it a lot).
Anytime I see something convoluted like that I see it as a sign that it was purposefully placed there to mislead "true seekers" and make them waste time. It's just another wild goose chase practice in my book.
The only magic I want to practice has to do with intent, and it's effectiveness should increase with your intent, not require you to forget your intent so that it can "work in the background:.
That just doesn't sound dependable.
Always avoid things that are convoluted, subjective and allow too much room for error.
If you are desperate enough you can convince yourself of anything you did "kinda worked", and that just leads to a downward spiral of being misled by your own desire.
This is why I find LoA especially dangerous in throwing "seekers" off the path that actually leads to magic. It's set up to make you gaslight yourself into endlessly attempting, and it's set up to make you interpret any minuscule event as "it worked".
>You have to perform a ritual and then somehow forget about something that you deemed important enough to do a ritual for (really convoluted logic, because if I bothered doing a ritual I definitely care about it a lot).
Very good point actually...
I am VERY interested in what that guy was saying about doing rituals in minecraft... Hoping he comes back... Lol
I know spirit work isn't really your thing, but I think that performing rituals over a digital medium like minecraft actually has a LOT of potential if we are talking about Chaos Magick.
Wouldn't mind giving it a shot with a skilled magician... Even if it doesn't work, I could at least use it to practice the spell and get it perfect before making an actual attempt.
Instead of all that, take the most dangerous job you can, so you die asap while it not being suicide, so you get to try again with rng. You just got a bad life roll.
I posted this to a thread and the glowies came real quick to shut the thread down, I don't know why they're so pro-christian, maybe because they're mormons and they need people to stay christians so they're easier to corrupt? Could also be they need wide population to follow only few different ideologies, so they can control narratives and programming better, and so there's much less unpredictability. I think these forces ultimately intend to capture the minds of humanity, as outlined in this thread
Wait, so being anti-chistian will get your thread removed?
maybe, there was ton of glowies derailing a thread very quickly https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37799092/ . It's like they defused any and all energy the thread had
All the good looking women who would make great wives and mothers are taken in high school and college the latest. Whatever remains is taken shortly after they enter the workforce. There exist very few good looking (7 and above) women that are single and have a good heart, are modest, raised in a decent family, soft spoken and pretty. The window of opportunity when they are single is very very narrow. These are the 2% of women, the highest stock of females this wonderful creation can offer. If you don't frequent their circles or the events they attend you have no chance of meeting them. Women also don't go anywhere alone, so whatever hobbies women have or events they attend it is done with their husband or boyfriend and if they are single with their groups of friends.
Boomers and gen-x are throwing money at young pussy like never before, we are talking boat trips, exotic trips, paying their rent and bills, buying them gifts, trips to beauty salons, etc. Many of them have net worths in the millions. Just look at all those modelling agencies and realize how many pretty girls are being baited to frick the rich and upper class.
Then there are chad millennials and chad zoomers who get their first pick at all the young pussy.
Then at the end of the line there is you anon, the average nobody with no money, no charisma, no looks, no social circle, no experiences and no toys.
tldr; there simply aren't enough single good looking young white women to go around for everybody, they are rare and exist mostly in very niche places where men without social circles (loners) can't get in to
That's a nice statistical analysis, but you'll meet your true love through a divine synchronicity.
It will never happen but thanks for the kind words.
I mean, you do realize that a world exists beyond the west right?
I would say that you're better off single, Illusion of Maya and all that, but if you HAVE to have a relationship, just go overseas...
>non-white women
That's a big no from me.
you could go eastern europe or greece
Your post originally reads as though you or a loved one’s life is in danger. Yet you go on to just prove yourself full of hubris and insufferable.
Amen I say to you you shall receive your miracle within the day, for you shall lose something precious for eternity and learn respect of the unseen world.
This is my word as secant of the high prince of hell Brutality, and as such is incontestable.
Well, that's going to be tricky, because, you see, in order for that to happen, you would have to actually have some kind of pull and not just be a LARPING schizoid who takes entirely too many drugs... Lol
>I am secant of the high prince of hell! OOOooo!
Shut up. You are a cashier at a fast food chain and your parents really want you to move out already.
You still around, looks like your thread got derailed by some schizos.
Yeah, fell asleep watching videos about the PGM...
Are you a miracle worker?
OP just sounds dumb and unwilling to accept that other people won't be holding his hand. Basically all of doing a magick is knowing with full certainty that it works. If you aren't intuiting on an advanced scale on the outset, then you're just going to sit here and fight with yourself.
Doing le superpowers will be forever out of your reach if this is your approach. You want us to convince you and consequently will never find what you seek.
>You want us to convince you
You seem to be misinterpreting. OP said nothing about not believing or needing to be convinced. He's asking for an actual source that works.
His thread isn't - "Prove to me X exists"
His thread is - "I believe X exists but I can't seem to find any legit testable examples of X"
Many posts have been made in the thread attempting to explain and OP has exhibited a consistent, direct refusal to attempt to understand what we're saying and is just obsessing over having super powers. That's a pretty shit take on what Magick is supposed to be.
The pathway is pretty clear and OP clearly doesn't get it. As explained, it's initially a mental process and progresses after some time. If you haven't had divinatory experiences, can't intuitively grasp symbolism and exert it and if you can't made dedicated practice apart of your routine, then clearly you're not going to le get super powers.
>if you can't made dedicated practice apart of your routine
How do you know you are engaging in the right practice?
I never see anything posted about experimenting or testing alleged abilities in any objective way at all.
I'm sorry, but none of the people that speak as you do have any "feats". Every single time I ask one of you what you do for a living, you are just another wage slave, but you believe yourself to have abilities that most people don't because they've never practiced at all, but for some reason your performance in life is no different than theirs.
How do you know you aren't just delusional?
What tests are you doing to screen for delusions, hallucinations, mental illness, etc?
Here's a good example from what you said:
>If you haven't had divinatory experiences
You said "experiences" as if merely having an experience holds some kind of weight to it. Someone can take a hallucinogenic substance (e.g. certain mushrooms) and have a lot of amazing "experiences", but it's all in their mind, it's delusions and hallucinatoins of the mind. Nothing in their actual life has changed, nothing has been altered in the physical realm by virtue of them taking the drug.
It's the same thing with the "dedicated practice" that I see a lot of people that speak like you talk about.
You place too much weight on things that you cannot test or observe, and that most importantly, have not yielded any significant improvements to your life that can't be attributed to random chance (luck).
In my mind, there is no difference between the armchair magician who reads endless books and never practices, and the the unfortunate "eternal practitioner" who never achieves any reality altering feats but thinks they have achieved something for simply practicing and "experiencing" phenomena of the mind.
Both groups have the same end result, they've accomplished nothing of significance.
You. I like you. I'm also tired of hearing bullshit over the years. Nothing of proof has been witnessed. All the people here are just blowing hot air. The religious nut jobs, the astrologers, the alchemists, the cultists, etc. Every single one. They are all hoping and waiting for something to change out of their dull lives so they can go hah! And align it with their delusional beliefs. Im so tired and I just want the truth. Stop all the lies everyone. Please.
>You. I like you. I'm also tired of hearing bullshit over the years.
Then leave? If you want truth you can read about then go talk philosophy over at EerieWeb. They're way better at it then over here.
Magic is a practice. If you want to understand magic then you gotta do the practice. Don't be like the anon you're replying to and demand everyone feed you information and proof like some emperor's snot nosed brat.
The kind of magic that anon is demanding random people show him proof of is the hardest to achieve. Monks spend a lifetime to be powerful enough to set newspaper on fire.
It's not the kind of thing probably anyone posting on this board is capable of, at least not consistently. But there is FAR FAR more to the practice then super powers. Even people who can do that kind of magic will tell you that it's not the point.
People are quick to throw out phrases like "scientific" and "objectively" but if we were actually being objective here we would admit that there is nothing scientific about using a black box to perform your measurements.
Yet damn near every scientist on the planet is doing exactly that. The first tool used in any scientific experiment is a black box. A thing that nobody understands the nature of.
They don't know what it is or why it exists. They don't know if it's actually giving reliable data about the outside world. They don't know if there even is a world outside of the black box. Yet they spend all of their collective man hours trying to explore outside of the black box and no time exploring the inside.
Meditation and magic is the practice of exploring inside of that box.
>The kind of magic that anon is demanding random people show him proof of
The only person "demanding" anything is you, coming to a thread about shaping reality to derail it and demand that we believe you and follow your practice in spite of not being able to prove that it works...
You don't like how the discussion in this thread is going? Fine, go start your own thread...
Also you're wrong about having to meditate for 80 years in a cave before you can do this stuff... I have multiple family members who were able move doors and furniture, no clue how they did it, but it certainly wasn't by meditating for 80 years in a cave... You're welcome to keep meditating in your cave though...
>The only person "demanding" anything is you, coming to a thread about shaping reality to derail it and demand that we believe you and follow your practice in spite of not being able to prove that it works...
I haven't demanded anyone do anything. Keep projecting though anon. You'll be astral on no time.
>You don't like how the discussion in this thread is going? Fine, go start your own thread...
I'm fine here, feel free to keep whining about it though.
>Also you're wrong about having to meditate for 80 years in a cave before you can do this stuff... I have multiple family members who were able move doors and furniture, no clue how they did it, but it certainly wasn't by meditating for 80 years in a cave... You're welcome to keep meditating in your cave though...
Great, maybe you should go ask them instead of getting all pissy at the people on this board.
nta but you aren't adding anything useful to the thread besides attention whoring.
My apologies. Please allow me to fix my behavior and join you guys in producing useful content
>wahhh wahhh
>gimme information!1!111!!
>you don't know what your talking about
>wahh wahhh
>delusions and hallucinations!!!!1!1!1
>mah objective science
>wahhh wahh
>i don't need meditation
>i don't know how to do magic, but i don't need meditation!!1!1!1
>wahhh wahh
>show me undeniable proof
>you're just shitzo!1!1!!1
>wahhh wahhh
>this board sucks
>you don't know what you're talking about
>wahh wahhh
>gimme information!1!1!!
I hope that wealth of useful content has made up for my past transgressions. I got more important shit to do now though. Ciao friends.
You are still doing it lol. The lack of self awareness is amazing.
>I'm fine here
Well, it's my thread, but if you want to be a dick then do what thou wilt I guess... You are the butthole here though buddy, not me...
>Great, maybe you should go ask them
1). The only one who could consciously control it is dead and
2). We are a family of Ghost Hunters... You don't think that every single one of us hasn't interrogated them to hell and back on this issue? None of them have any clue how they are able to do it...
>Also you're wrong about having to meditate for 80 years in a cave before you can do this stuff... I have multiple family members who were able move doors and furniture, no clue how they did it, but it certainly wasn't by meditating for 80 years in a cave...
This anon is right. Some abilities can be passed on to progeny. This implies that you need only have a connection with the person, and in my understanding this can be outlined in the psychological aspect of the individuals.
None of my family members taught me to use any ability, the last living one was very distant from me, I inherited almost nothing. But from her mother, she inherited extrasensory abilities that you all love to make threads about.
Anon, I don't think you understand what we're saying to you. The idea is transferring the mental to the physical isn't necessary or even desirable after a certain point. You're supposed to be practicing things like Pranayama to manage the endocrine system and Visualization so you can live-dream at will. After a certain point, your practice takes place there instead of here (if you're doing it right). If you were smart, you'd be taking this knowledge and going to set up your own personal astral landscape, your home base, instead of sitting here typing on your keyboard, trolling people who are actually making an effort.
You're welcome. Probably no one else will actually explain this to you and I'm not sure I blame them.
Well yeah, that would be the end goal, but right now I am looking to change the physical world, not the astral, I am not even sure if I can see the astral or not.
I understand what people are saying, it's just not what I'm looking for at the moment.
That being said, building my own astral realm and living in it does have some appeal, if someone could prove to me that I wasn't going to spend 60 years setting it up, and die, just to go live with the worms; I would probably do it, but I can't sacrifice the one life that I have for something that may only exist in my head.
>I can't sacrifice the one life that I have for something that may only exist in my head.
So then you make it exist. That's the whole idea.
Anon, I understand the appeal of the Siddhis. I think all of us would enjoy being a comic book character. The reality is that's dumb and once you get not very far into the process, you realize that was a naive idea to begin with and that you're way better off not trying to do literal "miracles" and instead it's a much more reasonable and effective use of your time to work on the higher levels instead of this place.
If you want to enjoy Human Time, go have sex or do drugs. Maybe you can channel your energy into making a really effective business or being an athlete instead. Either way, working your whole life, as you say, only to le get super powers, is a fricking stupid thing to do. Maybe that's what you need to hear - that the general consensus is that the things you're asking about aren't really within most peoples' reach, at least not in a reasonable amount of time. There are some exceptions, like having certain genetics, but that's a whole other story that jumps to pink hair trannies screeching about racism very quickly.
>I'm also tired of hearing bullshit over the years.
The bullshit just never stops.
You are really butthurt that nobody wants your useless cliche "advice".
>synchronicities
Sigh, this word again. The universal word for - "a coincidence happened that I go out of my way to interpret as something special, even though my actual life remains mundane like every other person around me"
>These synchronicities can come as they please
Yes........ almost like random events in life that every other person around you experiences, but they simply don't place the same weight/value on these things that you do, so they don't see it as special.
What you're talking about is exactly the kind of self delusion I'm trying to avoid.
It all comes down to a simple question - Is my life significantly better than the average person in an objective way (I don't mean subjective nonsense you can't measure like - "I'm enlightened", you have no proof of these things, it's just a belief).
If you are a wage slave like everyone else, having failed romantic relationships like everyone else, having poor physical health like everyone else, etc, MAYBE, just maybe you don't actually have any abilities and you aren't special, and it's all in your head.
>As soon as the numbers became 6-6-6 I heard six knocks on the wall
1. Could literally just be self delusion or mental illness (you sound like a schizo).
2. Perfect example of what I'm talking about. You heard 6 knocks, ok and what changed in your life that made it better than everyone else who didn't hear 6 knocks?
I sung a song in my head before and then coincidentally minutes later a car passed by playing the song.
Was it a synchronicity and I'm some super special individual?
Or could it just be that the song was trending at the time, and I live in a country of millions where a lot of people own cars, so it's a possibility that someone could pass by playing the same song I'm thinking about?
When you bring up your definition to describe my experience, you should make sure that it actually applies. If you can't do that, then you evidently can't accurately describe even a written event that you have the luxury of analyzing at your discretion.
The too long didn't read of what I just wrote here ^, is in the first two sentences.
I have to point this out, because in your effort to reduce things to produce a simplistic idea, you seem to miss key elements which throw off any evaluation you might produce.
I literally have to tell you how you're wrong, and tell you to reread beforehand, because I've judged that you're likely to misread.
There is no redundancy in my post here, by the way, this is necessary for you. I have no absence of insight on my own experiences. Your comment was already something I considered when I had the first dozen or so of my experiences. You're not bringing forth any new idea, neither is your idea correct.
To argue whether my life is mundane you'd have to actually know it wouldn't you? Yet with just the minimum that I've shared here showing that it isn't, you still want to say that it is mundane, just ridiculous on your part. I haven't told you everything, you're clearly jumping to conclusions. That alone places your observation into question.
In reality the majority of my coincidences happened that had a low probability of happening. That's a key element.
If you're going to dismiss it right here, then you'd have no argument, you'd fully be a moron screeching in the air as an excuse for being unconvinced instead of blatantly asking relevant questions like someone who has a grasp on a deliberate inquisitive approach to accounts.
Fortunately for everyone you did manage to finally formulate criteria with your if statements, but even then they show vagueness (and a slightly irrelevant criteria) as you can't seem to focus on articulating them differently because you wrote things off prematurely.
1/2
(continued)
>What you're talking about is exactly the kind of self delusion I'm trying to avoid.
No, what *you're* talking about is all in your head. Because your broad definition literally doesn't apply to experiences.
Guess its a little too late for you to avoid self delusion, then, isn't it?
>Yes........ almost like random events in life that every other person around you experiences
They're not random events when they have a pattern that connects an element of the event (could be a part of the setting, a thing someone said, the time, circumstance appearing as it did in a dream, etc.) to a phenomenon outside of the event. Example and this has happened: I dreamt of meeting someone just before I've woken up for the day, and as the day occurs I eventually meet the new person whose appearance is as my dream describes without having any perceivable control over this happening. Its not a random event anymore is it? Its not "oh it has nothing to do with anythng, its just dandelion seeds scattering in the wind, there is no connection anywhere its all random" which is the gist of your vague definition.
>Is my life significantly better than the average person in an objective way (I don't mean subjective nonsense you can't measure
Then provide a relevant criteria? Instead of using deductive logic at the time of writing. How about you think a little beforehand? You seem to love hearing yourself talk, and I like showing you dumb your points are.
>your three part criteria
No, no, no.
Got anything better?
>1. Could literally just be self delusion
No, I was accutely self-aware at the time and nothing else out of the ordinary happened for almost the whole day before and after. The knocks occurred at precisely the hour with no apparent reason, just as I was doing something in which I preemptively (although chronically at that point) and intensely gave the numbers meaning.
2 / 3
>2. Perfect example of what I'm talking about. You heard 6 knocks, ok and what changed in your life that made it better than everyone else who didn't hear 6 knocks?
What does it matter how better your life turns out?
So is this your standard for synchronicity or for everything that would seem to be a supernatural ability?
You attribute a useless standard: a synchronicity has to make your life change for the better each time it happens. Let me give you a hypothetical example to show you how dumb this is.
It could be the most unlikely thing to occur, I could guess the exact thought "verbatim" that the pope is thinking, and it could be the stupidest idea to ever run in his head, and I announce it in front of him, 100% accurate and his jaw drops. So what? Is my life now better for narrating how him thinking the archbishop across the room is gay?
What does it even mean then the synchronicity didn't happen? LOL You have no grasp on what you're thinking and what you're trying to say, I can tell because your point here is irrelevant to proving whether these synchronicities exist which seemed to be your original point.
>I sung a song in my head before and then coincidentally minutes later a car passed by playing the song.
>Was it a synchronicity and I'm some super special individual?
>Or could it just be that the song was trending at the time, and I live in a country of millions where a lot of people own cars, so it's a possibility that someone could pass by playing the same song I'm thinking about?
You just have a hate boner for people thinking they're special that's fine, not like I care, but why do I have to put up with it? You just have a moronic response to me. Its irrelevant.
You're just complaining about people who think they're special, barely arguing your original point. Make it better, make a better argument. You're saying two different things here.
I briefly mentioned in my first reply that low probability of an occurrence is "a" key element.
3/3
>What does it matter how better your life turns out?
Ok, well start working for your boss for free and be homeless, because why does it matter if you get paid for your efforts, you should be glad just to work period regardless of whether or not it benefits you.
Your response is exhibit A of someone who knows they can't produce any "results", so they have to just blindly believe in their own delusions.
You are applying moron logic, nothing in this universe operates as you stated here.
Every single interaction is a transaction (there is an exchange). Some exchanges are just more valuable than others.
When you breathe air your body exchanges oxygen for carbon dioxide, there is even an exchange between us and plants, because they take in carbon dioxide but give out oxygen.
Every single thing in existence involves some kind of exchange, and it's usually towards the "benefit" of the "entities" engaging in the exchange.
You really have to switch your brain off and deny reality to ask someone why does it matter if you get something out of an exchange.
Even plants which can't even think understand and engage in such a simple concept of existence.
There is no point in doing something if there isn't a benefit to you. Even charity is done because it makes us "feel good", so it is never 100% altruistic. If charity made people feel depressed, most people wouldn't take part in it, because you lose money and you don't even get to feel good about it lol. There is always some exchange of a benefit involved in why people do the things they do.
You for example, waste your time with your delusions because it makes your life feel more exciting and it makes you feel special, despite getting no tangible results in life.
You are getting a benefit, you're just getting an inferior one, a useless one, it's purely psychological.
Don't be desperate. You were shown to be stupid because you couldn't argue properly, and now you have to try to throw doubt back at me to make up for how dumb you look.
We're now seeing you defend none of your sad emotionally blinded points from your prior post, and having to explain your philosophy on the worth of supernatural abilities (because you failed to add that "important" information before apparently).
> Your response is exhibit A of someone who knows they can't produce any "results", so they have to just blindly believe in their own delusions.
My response isn't someone believing delusions, its someone directly addressing your argument, moron.
Its sad that you have to run defense by repeating that everyone who claims supernatural experiences is delusional while you fail to support that idea and rant about them instead.
>You are applying moron logic, nothing in this universe operates as you stated here.
Usually when someone fails as hard to argue just as you did, they start to psychologically show their true colors; after repetition of an unfounded conviction, this is usually where people try to sneak in their own ideas which would be best be described as what you literally just tried to demonize.
So lets look at your moronic logic.
>everything is an exchange (3 lines of this)
>an exchange is important guys! this is why if your life isn't better, then ur abilities are fake!
So you're repeating yourself, I just told you how dumb this was as a standard to prove the existence of abilities.
>insult about plant intelligence
>repetition, irrelevant philosophy about charity showing the same principle of exchange
How about you come up with a better criteria?
Again,
>"hurrr if you don't get money then the synchronicities don't exist!"
is a stupid standard for the existence of the phenomenon.
I briefly gave prescient dreams as an example.
Saying "uh how did u know that was gonna happen! no it didnt happen, no money!" is your stupid logic.
>You were shown to be stupid
That's just in your head.
I'm willing to bet that the large majority of people who read this line would agree that you sound stupid and illogical
>What does it matter how better your life turns out?
>I just told you how dumb this was as a standard to prove the existence of abilities.
Yes, and you were wrong you moron. The large majority of people on the planet who have the ability of above average intelligence (140+ IQ) tend to live better lives than those who are below average in IQ (90-). There are literally average IQ's for various work fields, the average IQ for an engineer is around 130, for a janitor it's in the 80's last time I check.
Abilities = Better Life
If you can't improve your life with your abilities, then you don't actually have any and they are just in your head.
Of course there are exceptions. A person born in extreme poverty in Africa won't get to do much with a 160+ IQ because there are no opportunities, but I'm not talking about those exceptions, I'm talking about people like you, I'm willing to bet you are likely in America (the land of opportunity).
>How about you come up with a better criteria?
There is no better criteria than success in life.
>is a stupid standard for the existence of the phenomenon.
It's literally the standard for everything else.
>I'm a genius
Ok, what field are you excelling in, what have you invented, etc?
>I'm have amazing athleticism and physical genetics
Ok, what sport do you play professionally and how well known are you for it?
Things like this always have monetary value.
Do you get it now idiot?
If someone is exceptional, there will always be monetary value attached to them being exceptional.
The only argument you have left is that person is going to actively choose to keep themselves a poor wage slave, but that's moron logic and I'll never buy it. It's much more logical to assume that they are just delusional about their own abilities.
>That's just in your head.
No, people can read it and they can see for themselves. You know there's a scientific thing were people can repeat experiences to prove phenomenon. This is a bit higher standard than your weird little "life is better" argument, but there's a bunch of scientific fields of study that use this. You think you could give it a try little guy?
>I'm willing to bet that the large majority of people who read this line would agree that you sound stupid and illogical
Feel free to lose money and the argument at the same time.
Speaking of standards, is this your moronic logic at work: If you are a wage slave like everyone else, having failed romantic relationships like everyone else, having poor physical health like everyone else, etc, MAYBE, just maybe you don't actually have any abilities and you aren't special, and it's all in your head.
So we can judge that you aren't special, you're a wage slave with failed romantic relationships and poor health "like everyone else" despite your attempts at trying to stand out with your sinking arguments?
Once again,
>Yes, and you were wrong you...moron!
Isnt an argument, neither is
>geniuses have a better life, this means their brains are the same as all supernatural abilities! loooool nobody can have a glimse of supernatural abilities which are unusable, that's fake!
>The large majority of people on the planet who have the ability of above average intelligence (140+ IQ)
>Abilities = Better Life
>If you can't improve your life with your abilities, then you don't actually have any and they are just in your head.
How many times do I have to make you look dumb?
>Of course there are exceptions.
Hey here's a smart thought, maybe apply that to people with partial supernatural abilities?
>There is no better criteria than success in life.
You're a moron who advocates intellect but you can't think how a scientific method would be a better standard to verify the existence of a supernatural ability.
>You're a moron who advocates intellect but you can't think how a scientific method would be a better standard to verify the existence of a supernatural ability.
You don't apply the scientific method and what I said doesn't exclude applying the scientific method you idiot.
How would consistently using your ability to yield profits not be the best "real world experiment" possible?
You didn't even give an example for your prescient dream bullshit, because what would you even test it on.
>Because when I want to verify gravity exists I just look at how much of a better life I have. Because its the standard for everything, like you said. This is your logic at work. See how moronic it looks?
Now you're just being disingenuous and everyone can see it lol.
It's not about gravity existing, it's about someone who believes they have the ability to control gravity.
You can lift rocks alone in your back yard but people with mental illness see and hear shit all the time.
If you went to a casino and used your gravity manipulation to consistently win at a roulette table (100% win rate) your ability would be undeniable in that case, mental illness and hallucination would not be a factor, and you'd have the added benefit of not being a wage slave.
Don't you think it's funny how hard you are ralleying against getting a benefit out of abilities. Maybe that's because if you accept that standard you'd be forced to accept that you don't have any.
Like why are you rallying so hard against using an ability to improve your life? LMAO
Yeah I don't according to you, even though I do.
That's why I I previously stated that these things happen on multiple occasions, because of repeatability being a part of the scientific method for verifying phenomenon. I have synchronicities occur multiple times, I have multiple prescient dreams. I'm inclined to believe there's something to it.
But you being just a moron lost in an argument, you couldn't see this despite how I've written about it.
>How would consistently using your ability to yield profits not be the best "real world experiment" possible?
There you go, little guy put the big boy pants on. And what a surprise because your previous points were all about "success" and an "exchange".
Don't act like you always had this point. You were rambling about your butthurt problems and spilling irrelevant philosophies.
Yes consistent results prove veracity! Genius makes a new discovery!
Stops arguing about success only? And starts arguing about repeatability like I was, maybe?
A little foresight would tell you to elaborate on your most important points at the start of he argument so you don't bring up your contention like literally delayed ("moronic") pseudointellectual.
>You didn't even give an example for your prescient dream bullshit, because what would you even test it on.
LOL I literally did, reread moron.
>Now you're just being disingenuous and everyone can see it lol.
>It's not about gravity existing, it's about someone who believes they have the ability to control gravity.
No, its about the existence of phenomenon regardless of whether you control it, hence why you argue AGAINST it without ever claiming to have it, but you use a stupid standard to argue against it.
Someone arguing for it would also never use your vague standard, but would insightfully use repeatability and test specific results (again not your vague success standard that you previously fought so hard to establish insults on; its second phase instead).
>its about the existence of phenomenon regardless of whether you control it
That's not magic, that's science, and ironically scientific discoveries are always applied in some way to do what........... make money.
So because they're different, we shouldn't verify phenomenon exists?
I don't which anon you are but it sounds like you're just trying to be desperately contrarian about "magic".
Science is study. And often real world application as well, branching out to mulitple fields of such study (psychology, biology, etc.), the knowledge of such study is acquired by common methodology to understand the world. Magic is what to you? Sorcery? Use of subtle energy? A disciplined practice of mysterious elements?
There's no reason science can't be used to understand magic, and both be used to understand the world, and then magic used more efficiently to one's own benefit. I'm not against any of these previous statements. I prefer, as I've said in this thread about 10 or so posts ago, that certain knowledge be given freely, because it can be used to people's benefit; but not everyone deserves to have such an advantage.
>So because they're different, we shouldn't verify phenomenon exists?
Nice attempt at a strawman, the point of my response was that the goal post was being moved. The entire argument was about abilities and testing whether they were real or not. Not testing natural phenomenon that simply "just happen".
>There's no reason science can't be used to understand magic
Once again, strawman, never said it can't be used, but nothing I said had anything to do with NOT using a scientific method.
Your ability could literally only earn you money if it successfully worked under scientific method.
Testing your ability in real life, under real life circumstances, to make real world changes that are documented in a record, is an application of the scientific method. Using your ability to make money would fall under that, because you literally could not make any money if your ability doesn't work.
This is why all the fake delusional schizo mentally ill wannabe occultists never want to make finances a part of the discussion, because they never test their abilities in any practical way, and their real life is in complete shambles. Acknowledging this would give them an existential crisis because they'd have to finally admit to themselves that they are powerless and they don't actually have any abilities.
Bringing money into the discussion is always a problem for these types, because our entire lives in this modern era revolves around money (the internet you are using to read this, the electricity powering your device, the device you are using, etc).
If they make wealth a part of the discussion, they now have to confront the elephant in the room, that they can't use their ability to help them with the one thing their life revolves around. That brings into question whether they have any abilities at all.
>Nice attempt at a strawman, the point of my response was that the goal post was being moved.
Moved the goalposts who, me? The guy who has been addressing each aimless and wild argument thrown at me for claiming to have supernatural phenomenon occur to him?
The guy being scrutinized by halfwits (maybe its just one anon) who don't know what they're doing, how to argue?
You say: >"oh this supernatural ability can't be real because there's no success from it!!!
I say: "no, money is a stupid standard. A better life isn't a standard for proving phenomenon"
You: >'THIS STANDARD WORKS FOR EVERYTHING!' "
I say "Try the scientific method as a standard instead, idiot. Does your success standard work for gravity?"
You: >"that's science! not magic!"
Therefore the standard doesn't work for everything as you claimed.
You: "Well, I meant verifiability! I always meant it I just never said it!"
Me: "so you're shifting the argument."
You" you're shifting the goalposts! strawman!"
Just stop your nonsense before you start denying reality itself.
>I say "Try the scientific method as a standard instead, idiot. Does your success standard work for gravity?"
>You: >"that's science! not magic!"
That was for you talking about just phenomenon alone, separate from it being CAUSED by the person.
Remember you said:
>No, its about the existence of phenomenon regardless of whether you control it
That's you moving the goal post, because the entire discussion is about phenomenon that is controlled by the individual (magic)
Phenomenon just happening - Scientific Realm
Phenomenon being caused by the individual - Supernatural (magic) Realm
You are ironically just using another strawman.
Why would we jump to talking about natural phenomenon when the entire discussion is about controlled phenomenon (that's literally moving the goal post to deflect from the point).
>Tsundere skeptical /x/ anon
>W-what? I don't secretly admire you....s-schizo! Don't delude yourself!
>That was for you talking about just phenomenon alone, separate from it being CAUSED by the person.
No, you said your "better life" standard was a standard for "everything".
So either admit that you typed that out, it was vague and not what you intended, or own up to it (it was already invalidated).
This point of mine applies to your next point.
>You are ironically just using another strawman.
No, just arguing and using the logic behind your own posts. Blame your vagueness.
The guy who says
>Why would we jump to talking about natural phenomenon
also says earlier
>I have to believe that you are being disingenuous and pretending like what I was saying wasn't obvious, because I don't believe you are that stupid.
lol
>you said your "better life" standard was a standard for "everything".
None of us can verify if your life is better over the internet anon............ stop using drugs.
>made the tsundere joke beforehand
You need to google what tsundere is, because the dere part has yet to be seen
I'm saying your "better life" standard was so vague after you said it applied to everything that I made a point to use it on gravity to show you how stupid your standard was.
You are constantly vague, perhaps that consistency proves that you cannot be specific and were out of your depth throughout the previous argument.
>I had to google it myself to see what this guy meant... now I'm going to reply..."you need to google it, you're wrong!"
Yeah, even out of depth when it comes to anime.
Well since thats all you have to say now, I won't continue to entertain myself by replying to you.
>I'm saying your "better life" standard was so vague
Oh yeah, it was so vague when I kept referring to wealth and money......... try again.
> I won't continue to entertain myself by replying to you
We both know you want that last reply, don't lie 😉
I was more interested in helping OP, so this makes a nice segue back onto the subject at hand. Your arguments were just aimless and vague, and now jokingly irrelevant
>Oh yeah, it was so vague when I kept referring to wealth and money......... try again.
> (me) How about you come up with a better criteria?
>There is no better criteria than success in life.
> (me) is a stupid standard for the existence of the phenomenon.
>It's literally the standard for everything else.
Anyway, I've got other things to do.
I swear you're probably not even twenty years old, judging by how off-topic you get. I was arguing with someone who was just vague and ranting with anti-occult frustration from the beginning.
Everything you've said in this post that I didn't directly reply to is not worth replying to, just so we're clear. You're just repeating everything I managed to establish as a useful direction, but you also said you were "done" with the argument. I bet you actually admire me and hate me at the same time. lol
You're a little late to be supporting the point about testing your abilities, it reads like you're writing an essay to showcase how awesome the scientific method is while complaining about imaginary schizos. Literally irrelevant and a waste of time as its repetitive, you can puff scientific verification up all you want, I was already on board with it several posts ago so why would I argue against it.
>I bet you actually admire me and hate me at the same time.
Lol, what are you even talking about I don't even know you, you're a random poster.
You are literally so predictable that I didn't even read this post and made the tsundere joke beforehand, which now lands successfully.
>LOL I literally did, reread moron.
See here:
>You can lift rocks alone in your back yard but people with mental illness see and hear shit all the time.
>If you went to a casino and used your gravity manipulation to consistently win at a roulette table (100% win rate) your ability would be undeniable in that case, mental illness and hallucination would not be a factor, and you'd have the added benefit of not being a wage slave.
You're finally starting to shift your argument into something that makes sense, congrats it only took you several posts and pointless ranting from an asshurt perspective.
>Don't you think it's funny how hard you are ralleying against getting a benefit out of abilities. Maybe that's because if you accept that standard you'd be forced to accept that you don't have any.
Don't you think its funny that it took this long for you to state an arguable point, so that we're not left breaking down the useless vague parts of it and hearing your philosophy on "exchange" which was irrelevant? Have you decided to turn your brain on finally?
>Like why are you rallying so hard against using an ability to improve your life? LMAO
Projection of you rallying hard for your vague "broad standard" (I literally called it this several posts ago) when I was the one arguing for scientific method while you played with your baby blocks trying to form this argument.
You were literally talking about success in terms of money/poverty because you couldn't formulate your argument specifically.
>You're finally starting to shift your argument into something that makes sense
I'll make this simple for you since you are slow:
1. The best way to test your ability is to test its practical application (obviously)
2. The only accurate test is one that can be independently verified (doesn't rely exclusively on your mind and senses - like your non-existent dream ability).
3. The most practical application for a living breathing human in a modern capitalist society, is wealthy building, and earning money through the use of your ability by default makes it something that is independently verified (since other minds than yours are involved in the process).
I don't know how much simpler I can make this, because it seems like you are so dense that you actually thought I was speaking about "making money" as a test, in some way being COMPLETELY SEPARATE from the practical application part and the independently verified part.
Which would make no sense at all, because if the ability has no practical application and it can't work with other people around (can't be independently verified), it can't make you money.
This is literally 1 > 2 > 3
I have to believe that you are being disingenuous and pretending like what I was saying wasn't obvious, because I don't believe you are that stupid.
It literally makes no sense for me to actually mean - "Just make money using the ability but find a way to do it in which practical application isn't a factor".
There is literally no way to make money if the ability doesn't affect/interact with physical reality, therefore any working (real) ability by default has practical application.
But you only have dreams that can't be tested or verified as your example of an ability so no wonder what I was saying wasn't obvious to you.
I'm done at this point. All this back and forth because you are delusional with low standards for yourself. I don't see how anyone can use "I saw it in a dream" as proof for their ability lol.
>I don't know how much simpler I can make this, because it seems like you are so dense that you actually thought I was speaking about "making money" as a test, in some way being COMPLETELY SEPARATE from the practical application part and the independently verified part.
I thought you might say this, because now you have nothing left to say. You were full of frustration and its gone as you blew steam out in the face of a usable conversation that you frankly weren't ever intending to have.
Congrats on taking this long to refine your points.
>omg you thought I was talking about money!?
He says like someone with delayed reactions, because he couldn't formulate an argument.
Time and time again I've pointed out your blatant inability.
Its Joever for you, anon, you can sit down return to the sidelines now.
>your three points
Congrats on being on the same page as me. Too bad you're voluntarily leaving, I guess its because you can't see eye to eye by admitting your latency and motive throughout the thread.
I literally offered you to return to the conversation when you argued relevantly and you're already leaving as you start to realize how dumb you've been acting. Incomplete information is literally a running theme in all of your posts. Anyone can go back and check this.
>I have to believe that you are being disingenuous and pretending like what I was saying wasn't obvious, because I don't believe you are that stupid.
I addressed your points throughout the whole thread without much delay. Blame yourself for being this late, and therefore having some level of incompetence (i.e., moronation).
>But you only have dreams that can't be tested or verified as your example of an ability so no wonder what I was saying wasn't obvious to you.
I told you how they could be verified
>Dream information being verifiable advice for the future is best verifiable by sharing the dream info and seeing for yourself what happens.
...so you're aimlessly coping. Sad!
>Dream information being verifiable advice for the future is best verifiable by sharing the dream info and seeing for yourself what happens.
That's not independent verification, especially with amazing evemts like "I saw a person in a dream" lol.
>a better life is the standard for everything else
Because when I want to verify gravity exists I just look at how much of a better life I have. Because its the standard for everything, like you said. This is your logic at work. See how moronic it looks?
You're conflating evidence/theory/verification of the existence of phenomenon, with "muh life is awesome because I am not stupid"
Only a moron would do this, by the way.
Literally since your argument against proving the existence of phenomon is that
"my standard is the standard for everything else!" then you can't even hope to prove paranormal phenomenon like ghosts without summoning your dumb standard through braindead incantations, to cope with being unable to prove anything one way or another without shoehorning a "successful life". You're too caught up in the argument you made (which is wrong) to be convinced of anything else. You should take a break, and when you return if you can't see how wrong you are there's no point in responding to you.
1 / 2
>I briefly gave prescient dreams as an example.
LMAO, every person that says they can see the future always conveniently says it's:
1. Symbolic in nature (never see's a specific scene with their eyes, it's always symbolic)
2. Never gets a specific date
3. Never gets a specific time
So how the hell do you really know that the dream was prescient?
Aren't you just using hindsight after the fact, and interpreting the symbolism to fit some recent event?
People have said it's end times over and over based on the "prophecy" of the Bible and that's because it's not a dependable prophecy (it's vague and symbolic, gives no specific date, and gives no specific time).
The more you talk, the more you prove my point.
>Saying "uh how did u know that was gonna happen! no it didnt happen, no money!" is your stupid logic.
Making money with your ability to see the future is a great testing ground for whether or not your ability works.
Give me an example of what else you'd test it on that could be independently verified and not the result of coincidence (random chance)?
>So how the hell do you really know that the dream was prescient?
I literally gave the answer to this in the explanation where I mentioned my prescient dream, I said
>" Example and this has happened: I dreamt of meeting someone just before I've woken up for the day, and as the day occurs I eventually meet the new person whose appearance is as my dream describes without having any perceivable control over this happening."
(
)
Does me repeating myself help you understand it?
>Aren't you just using hindsight after the fact, and interpreting the symbolism to fit some recent event?
No. Because that's not what happened. Lol lets try asking on-topic questions next time by reading before you throw arguments around.
>The more you talk, the more you prove my point.
Oh you're the same anon. I thought you were a different one.
>Making money with your ability to see the future is a great testing ground for whether or not your ability works.
Yes when you actually have control over it. Then its a lot easier. I mentioned, and its easily inferrable, before that these synchronicities are not controlled but your "genius" level insight I guess forbids you from understanding anything accurately before you speak. However, yes I have used the dream prescience once or twice as advice, but they don't show me lottery tickets. They usually show me events or people for the following day.
>Give me an example of what else you'd test it on that could be independently verified and not the result of coincidence (random chance)?
Dream information being verifiable advice for the future is best verifiable by sharing the dream info and seeing for yourself what happens. Other synchronicities like what happens to several of my drawings, are verifiable by the product.
Surveying multiple people and finding consistent results, is additionally useful for this intention.
Using some instrument that can detect a physical (as in the laws of physics) phen, is the only remaining way.
2/2
>" Example and this has happened: I dreamt of meeting someone just before I've woken up for the day, and as the day occurs I eventually meet the new person whose appearance is as my dream describes without having any perceivable control over this happening."
Ok, you really have zero self awareness. You don't seem to get that the human mind can't be trusted, you could literally THINK you saw that specific person in your dream and it could just be a person who "kinda looks like" that person, or not even close and your mind is just trying to piece together details that fit your cognitive biases.
There are things like placebo, hallucinations, delusions, mental illness, cognitive biases, etc.
You are literally relying on only your own mind (no independent verification) for proof.
That is moron logic, weren't you just telling me about the scientific method?
What sounds scientific about "I THINK I saw this person in a dream" when most people forget their dreams shortly after waking up and most people get details about their dreams wrong all the time because it's hard to remember?
>Dream information being verifiable advice for the future is best verifiable by sharing the dream info and seeing for yourself what happens.
You are not giving an example, you are just describing some vague process.
Describe how X dream, gives Y information and results in Z outcome based on your actions.
At the end of the day your example is garbage if you can't even control what you dream about the ability is still useless, because it's a random event in the future.
You could dream that you have diarrhea in the future and you save yourself from shitting your pants, congratulations you are an amazing occultist now for your "dream magic", please tell me how I should learn from you.
If an ability can't be used for profit in some way, that's likely because it's extremely useless.
Okay, lets argue
>You don't seem to get that the human mind can't be trusted, you could literally THINK you saw that specific person in your dream and it could just be a person who "kinda looks like" that person, or not even close and your mind is just trying to piece together details that fit your cognitive biases.
Yeah you could argue that if you don't know exactly what happened so let me tell you almost exactly what happened.
For this one, it was several months ago, the day before at night I dreamt of a police officer coming up to my car, I saw his face and his eyes were blue. The day rolled by. I thought "great, no police encounter". I slept later on in my car, woke up to a police officer knocking on the window, past midnight. He had blue eyes as well, same complexion and skin tone (white).
>You are literally relying on only your own mind (no independent verification) for proof.
This is why this sort of phenomenon is told to people once its suspected of being prescient, and then when the information can be tested for veracity since it is prescient, they can verify it. Wouldn't you know it, its a scientific method? The thing I was advocating for when I first started arguing about your vague standard of "muh better life" and exchange.
>weren't you just telling me about the scientific method?
Yeah what's the problem? I'm perhaps telling you for the fourth time now. What are you on about? Do you want to pretend that you were holding me up to this standard from the beginning when you verifiably weren't? Otherwise you wouldn't be positing it right now, would you?
The rest of your post is laughter fodder, as again you talk without complete information. So lets give you a chance to read what you were so eager to talk about prematurely.
>Be me
>Have the common sense to not waste 30 years on bullshit without proof first
>Get accused of asking other people to hold my hand by people who can't accept that they spent their entire lives chasing wild geese
I'd like to know when backing up your claims became "hand holding"...
Listen, if you have a proof of concept for your system, that works, within a week or so, without having to invest hundreds of dollars, or spend 18 months in a cabin in the woods; I'm willing to give it a try...
If you have a system that does require hundreds of dollars or an 18 month ritual, but can prove that your system actually works; I will also give it a try...
What I am NOT going to do is sit around with chanting mantras and trying to lick my own butthole until I die of gullibility just because some narcissistic internet troll said mean things to me...
If that sounds like "hand holding" to you than you need therapy...
Are you sure you're not just aiming to troll people who have had mystical experiences? I don't need to be convinced that I've had any. You're the one that needs convincing that I've had some. Why do I need to convince you? I don't care if you believe me.
>back up claims
Dude, that's simply not how Magick works. How do you not know this? You claim to be familiar, but so obviously are not familiar with it in even a foundational level. Explaining this shit is basically impossible for most people, which is why we use all of this symbolism. If you can't square circles, summon Christ and cross the Bifrost bridge after rebuilding Osiris, then I don't know what to tell you. It just sounds like you're a normalgay.
I know what people say about magick, and I know what the real deal looks like...
If you were capable of the real deal, you wouldn't be telling me that you can't prove it...
If you were capable of the real deal; shit would be flying off my walls right now...
>the real Siddhas can do omnipresent telekinesis on blind targets
You're a moran.
>I never see anything posted about experimenting or testing alleged abilities in any objective way at all.
That's because this is anathema to the entirety of Occult, how it's taught and the philosophical reasons for consequently displaying the process. Remember when you used to hear "a magician never reveals his secrets!"? This is why, anon. It's not because they don't want to, it's because we now speak different languages than normalgays, have completely different outlooks on life and a different vantage point regarding what constitutes Magick. You seem to think "Magick" means literal Marvel superpowers where guys can fly, get super strength and turn dogs into pretzels. I say that, again, that's definitely not what it's like at the very least in the beginning. Do you seriously imagine someone is out there dedicating decades of their lives just so they can astral frick an alien or turn people's toes blue? For the hundredth time, you're completely misunderstanding what the idea is or why people want to achieve Apotheosis. You get to a certain point where the physical world isn't really a meaningful concern of your practice. You're a materialist and incapable of understanding what Magick is, so me "proving" anything for you is entirely pointless. You, again, don't seem to grasp the foundational blueprint for Magick.
What we're explaining is that it's a deeply personal process, it's only really a physical process for the beginning and that the aim is to either not need the physical vessel anymore or progress to the point where the physical self no longer really does the practice anymore.
It's really strange that you guys make these complaints, but evidently don't even try to understand the process nor how it progresses.
It's sort of like this: even if you could turn a guy's dick into a rubber band or go invisible, why would you want to anymore?
(1) Extreme attention must be given by yourself to your every action and (2) a belief system must be made in which you proceed to tie your every action with a visualized future that you wish; (3) therefore, every action is associated with your visualization.
This is the fastest way.
I began with a series of 8 numbers holding meaning, each one. I rationalized the meanings, and firmly believed them, I foolishly linked a number with a chakra beginning with 1 being the lowest, ending with 7 the maximum number with its meaning being summation; all others had their own meaning. The number 8 meant a new octave of seven, the eighth number being the number 1 again.
You have to understand here how envelopled the belief system was. Every movement was counted. Every breath was counted. Every step of the foot, counted. Every flicker of the mouse was counted. I firmly believed that the number count meant that I had landed on the number and was due its attributed meaning which you have the luxury of creating on your own right now, anon. I did all of this to escape overwhelming intrusive thoughts, to give order and authority where there was chaos. I then foolishly began to attribute numbers not only to the chakra meanings I had given them earlier but to desirable futures. So when I landed on a certain number in any of my actions while consciously awake, if the number was unfavorable I proceeded to redo my action; and I did this to the greatest and most painful extents. I forced myself to do this. I had the octave at hand, the game's rules were set. I did this for a year in a secluded environment, as I would repeat my steps if I went outside or I would calculate them intentionally but again this is all otherwise unnecessary in normal life. I found I often landed one number apart, and i began to attribute a different meaning to the number which I consistently got. In fact, undesirable events started to show this number.
Eventually, a couple of years later, ...
1 / 2
... I abandoned the numbering system to a sufficient extent to proceed with my life in a more normal manner, but I began to use a different system. The "OCD" like ritual of my thought process did not leave me easily; these things merely transitioned into another system.
With these, I still used my visualization although without much care. Again, foolish. This was all very exhausting to my mind, I should add. Continuing, I began to encounter people that I intently thought to avoid. I hated those people so much, that I constantly thought about avoiding them, although their group was unaware of who I was. Nevertheless the encounters started occurring in the most ridiculous conditions. The probability of encountering them was low but it didn't seem to matter. To give you one example, I once parked in an empty lot to work on my car and one of those people within a half hour decided to park 15 feet next to my car and ate their lunch in their car and stayed their entertaining themselves in their car for about an hour. The probability of that happening was extremely low.
This sort of thing exists regardless of probability if you use your mind's focus enough. Be careful if you actually do it. This is just a method of using the 3 things I pointed out above to get a reality shaping ability. You quickly very disciplined. I laugh at you people who have to make no fap threads. Try going at least year without jerking off, and constantly fasting to prove your strength of volition to yourself.
If you do the method I've given, be very careful what you start to think.
My family tree has a short generation of women who used supernatural abilities. Some things are easier when your bloodline passes on the ability involuntarily, but the last practitioner abandoned the practice due to christian beliefs. I won't elaborate more, this is just to give some validity to posts. I did heal a finger of mine once, it was one of the stranger things I have experienced.
2 / 2
>So when I landed on a certain number in any of my actions while consciously awake, if the number was unfavorable I proceeded to redo my action;
I also counted the redos, mind you. I was that obsessed.
Maybe nobody will believe me, but if you were there you will have had to have heard it, this that happened to me during that time: As usual I had been counting and redoing things until even the redo was properly executed and done within an octave of the proper number and on the proper number within the octave (time to use your big brain to make sense of this; I am not repeating the same two statements) and all to do a mundane task. I had in my mind at the time the idea that I was doing this rather mundane task to fight against evil which would occur at a certain time that I associated with the 666 number (I didn't personally believe in it, I merely used the connotations of it and jumped on the idea, unable to think of its instance as anything else; woe was me, as this was the sort of intrusive thought that i had, but one of the lighter examples), as I soon as my task was finished, the hour and minute I was expecting was seconds away. It was the time of 12:00 AM or something, on the sixth day of June or something like that. As soon as the numbers became 6-6-6 I heard six knocks on the wall in front of me.
You have no idea how stunned I was, but at the same time determined in my beliefs as this merely proved that I was onto something; far more than previous examples had proven before, of this work I began.
I hated that I was right, or rather that I was working on some phenomenon where my thoughts aligned with something between my beliefs and actions that weren't even my own.
Basically, my numbers-and-belief-system (symbolism?) method proved to attain results. I don't do that sort of thing anymore. The level of discipline was excruciatingly painful, and I had little liberty to think other things as I was so preoccupied. But it worked. So...figure it out.
What this means to me is that there is either:
a.) some sort of track upon which all events shall follow (I literally could not stop counting as soon as I woke up during these days, and the synchronicities still occurred on the numbers I used as if following schedule) and which you can be cognizant of, exists. I used numbers as a substrate, but also attached concepts to those numbers, along with my desires and fears to specific numbers. The numbers themselves could be removed from the formula, except that they would need to be replaced with a different system for ordering the occurrence of the thoughts which you focus on.
It'll take some tinkering to figure this out, how to use it properly, and to your advantage while cutting out as many unfavorable elements (that my system had) as possible. I created it without intending to find anything, and gradually over time.
or
b.) I created these events myself, and that this was done in great isolation and intense obsession, meticulous action, belief/use of symbolism; that is, I created the most corroboratie ones due to the detail I gave the belief preceding the event/phenomenon/action (which did not come from me).
or
c.) a combination of both.
This is what I can give to this topic. I've forgotten much of those painful and beautiful days... .
*corroborative
You know, that is interesting, I have had odd synchronicities happen after long meditation sessions before, although I will say that about 1-2 hours seems to be the sweet spot for me, any more than that does not appear to have any effect...
You probably wouldn't believe me if I simply told you that I've had hundreds of synchronicities occur to me without meditating. Especially last year.
I'll give one example, as its one of the most amazing. I'm an artist, I draw as a hobby and to offer a good story to people, and I give a different perspective than what other artists give. I created a character over a couple of years without putting too much thought into her, I've drawn her quite a bit. Without having put in much effort, I created a backstory for her where the name I originally gave her coincidentally managed to be a short or "root" word origin of the name of one of the four seasons, and I posted that backstory of hers in the early hours of the corresponding equinox (and beginning of the season irl) without knowing that it was the equinox/start of the season; this was last year. The post is timestamped, and now I have a character who, in my series of stories, is responsible for the use of calendars, the concept of determinism, and in recognition of her work an entire season is historically (according to my fictional story) named after her; and her name still retains a quality of her family's first names; the post was uploaded on the equinox of the season "named after her".
These things happen often, there's one artist who is quite fond of me and who I have shared synchronicities like this with (not sharing as a retelling of the event, but sharing as being part of the same synchronistic experiences dozens of times).
I didn't change much of my life since these began to be more pronounced, and I've only learned more about the world. I would point to my self discipline both in body and mind. But lately I've been too consumed with my emotions and stressed out. I've become forgetful. These synchronicities can come as they please, I have not controlled them, but they also aren't too important to have, to me at least. I have other goals. They're mystical and exciting to have, I'll admit that.
Get a job
This is pathetic, whoever the anon is arguing with me, I didn't come here to break apart your argument. Just come up with a better standard if you really want to prove to anyone that "you're all delusional for claiming you have supernatural abilities!". Otherwise, you shouldn't bother to reply. My counterargument is right up here in case anyone wants to see how usefully logic can be applied, but its digressing.
>I have studied countless traditions, all around the world, and I have yet to experience anything that any of them promise.
I am skeptical of this claim, prove it.
>I have studied countless traditions, all around the world, and I have yet to experience anything that any of them promise.
I am skeptical of this claim, prove it.
>I have studied countless traditions, all around the world, and I have yet to experience anything that any of them promise.
I am skeptical of this claim, prove it.
Why do you guys think OP hasn't responded to these requests for proof that he's studied these things?
>I have studied countless traditions, all around the world, and I have yet to experience anything that any of them promise.
I am skeptical of this claim, prove it.
>I am skeptical of this claim, prove it.
I am skeptical of your skepticism, prove it.
>I have studied countless traditions, all around the world, and I have yet to experience anything that any of them promise.
I am skeptical of this claim, prove it.
What claim are you skeptical of, that I have studied many different traditions, or that I have yet to experience anything that any of them promise?
I mean, I'm not sure how I am supposed to prove that I did NOT find anything...
Proving that I have studied countless traditions from all over the world? I don't know why that would even be in question as it's not like this type of information isn't plastered all over the internet...
The question is, if I do prove to you that I have studied and gained an, admittedly shallow, understanding of a wide range of religious practices, what do I get out of it? What can you offer me to justify the time it would take for me to convince you?
I am skeptical of the claim that you have studied many different traditions, and I will offer useful spiritual advice if you can prove this.
What would meet your criteria for proof?
Try fasting
The secret is in 63. You have to 'pray' for something that is already there. Already complete. You don't 'ask', but affirm what already exists.
You are God.
I'm not sure if I understand what you mean here.
Pray for something that is already there?
Are you telling me to just accept things the way that they are? Because that's not really what I am looking for man...
You live in infinity. Whatever you want, already exists. What you are going to be, already exists.
Think more in terms of manifestation. Asking for things does not work - that's a very corrupted form and modern form of "prayer" - be grateful for what you already have, and know the future you seek is already there.
Instead of "praying for" things, just "pray" things - pray them into the Now.
And what is the deadline on this process?
If the deadline is less than 3 months, I've already tried what you are talking about and it didn't work for me, you may need to be more specific.
If the deadline is longer than 3 months; I'm going to need proof that this is actually possible before I devote that much time and energy to it as I have been led down a lot of dead ends, for months or even years, at a time this way.
If you need proof that prayer works, you are a lost donkey. There is no deadline. It works if it doesnt hinder you spiritually. It takes no time and very little energy. If you ask for guidance you arent in a dead end. Nope it has never been years.
Sorry, doesn't sound remotely close to what I asked for in the OP man... I mean, I respect what you're into, but if it can't produce tangible, physical, results; it's not what I'm after.
Begging and wheedling the Gods for the Law to be broken, most commonly for money to fall into your hands, lol, no, never works.
Consider tracking down a copy of "The Isaiah Effect: Decoding The Lost Science of Prayer and Prophecy", by Gregg Braden
Anon, I wanted to say I do believe you can find happiness and joy. Others to connect with and hep you can receive. Adventures to be had and dreams to follow. I hope for the best for you anon, and others as well. This message applies to others too.
>and help you can receive.
Sorry for the typo. I hope you find the help you seek.