What are the best ways to meditate?
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Meditation
Things and concepts at the edge of reality — and credulity. The bizarre and the spooky, mysteries, cryptozoology, weird coincidences, aliens, esoteric knowledge, truths with horrific implications, ghosts, and whatever else seems to fit.
Choose a posture. Half lotus, seiza, even cross-legged. Breathe for the count of four in. Hold for the count of four. Breathe for the count of four out. Hold for the count of four. When your focus inevitably wanders, notice it, and bring it back to your breath. Take notice of the strategies the ego uses to distract you. Also try noticing the sensation of having a body, across your whole body.
walking meditation
Or laying down in bed. Both work really well its beautiful.
That's the real test isn't it. We wrestle not with flesh and blood for against spiritual wickedness and evil. Otherwise it'd be too easy.
Every way is a lie. None of the gurus could sustain there higher awareness if they had to work a day job to barely make ends meet and/or be surrounded by normies who treat them like shit. If you can only be above the material world when you're in a safe space then you are a failure as a spiritual being.
The only thing stopping you from being in a “safe space” to reach enlightenment are your material attachments
Personally I’m neet maxing and life is comfy cozy perfect for satori
Having nothing is easy when you had nothing to lose.
>None of the gurus could sustain there higher awareness if they had to work a day job to barely make ends meet and/or be surrounded by normies who treat them like shit.
I think that's wrong.
its not impossible but there's absolutely some truth to that
stress kills gung
alcohol kills gung
weed dulls the ability to feel it properly
accelerants burn away all the above baseline potential that is cultivated
your wife being a c**t WILL frick up your practice
significant financial problems will too
whats there to worry about hanging out in the mountains?
having reached a certain level, the practitioner is not bothered by heat or cold
It may well be easier for purposes of attainment if you go shave your head and join a monastery. Distractions are distractions. But distractions are simply just that, and there's nothing to say that lay people can't reach high levels of attainment even with all of life's distractions.
Everyday suffering/conflict is also just a great way to pressure test, they are oppurtunities to test the effectiveness of your practice. What good is meditation if it only works on a cushion for 10 mins at a time?
I'd answer more seriously if you didn't choose an aum shinrikyo picture. Go read up on those guys if you aren't familiar -- bad juju.
Go to 4plebs and read the tons of meditation threads from the past, collect any posts which resonate within you and stick with them and practice daily.
This is the most important: Practice daily if you can, it's not bad if you miss a day or 2.
There is no best way, many people get to higher states of consciousness, manage to astral project, access past life memories and other "crazy stuff" and each of those people have done so using a different "method".
In my opinion the most basic thing about meditation is being able to direct the focus of your awareness on a single point AND ALSO being aware of the whole picture of your consciousness and each of its elements without being "hypnotized" by any of those elements, it's the 2 basic things people say that meditation is about: 1) Focused attention on a single point and 2) Mindfulness/Open monitoring/Non-directive meditation
That means that in the end of the day you are the ultimate neutral observer, you are not the opinions, thoughts, emotions or anything else which you experience. So maybe try to become aware of those "mundane" thoughts and emotions which are the main focus of your awareness and after really distancing yourself from them (remember that distancing DOES NOT mean ignoring them/suppressing them) then try to use more direct focused attention to achieve other things - although many say that there is nothing to achieve, no chakras to charge, nowhere to go, you can only become more and more aware everyday and accept that fatalism is real and that everything was, is and will be perfect the way it is.
I love you, goodbuye.
>what is the cerebellum and how do i neglect it
Videos on Meditation and being present:
Depends entirely on your goal and your situation.
Can you describe some goals? I'm asking because for me meditation is one and only thing: Total detachment from everything towards being the silent observer, everything else is as
said: over-complicating.
Boxers meditate to gain confidence in their next match.
Students meditate to retain information.
Ravers meditate on the vibe of the crowd to lose their ego.
Marathon runners hit meditative states they call "pushing through the wall" where they can ignore fatigue and just move their body autonomously.
Meditation is deliberate focus of awareness. It can be done many ways, for many reasons.
What you and most everyone in this thread mean is Buddhist processes like focusing on breath for the purpose of ego eradication.
That is an exceedingly limited and dog.atic understanding of meditation.
It is likely what you want, but my point if for you and /x/ to understand you are essentially doing the same thing as letting Christians have the only definition of God and the only "correct" process of prayer.
I never think that I'm doing "ego eradication" when I'm meditating, nor I've ever studied Buddhism, nor I follow any dogma and I believe that meditation is only being in pure awareness regardless of what is happening.
>I believe that meditation is only being in pure awareness
You are ALWAYS being in pure awareness. There is no possibility of being otherwise.
You do not need to sit down and shut up to do this.
You do not need to sit down and shut up to realize this.
You have been taught a limited understanding.
All those boxers, students, runners e.t.c. aren't meditating, they are "doing" things with their mind just how a programmer comes up with many ways to complete a program designed for a specific reason.
Meditation is not a practice, it's not doing, it's a state of JUST being and no more words can be applied to it otherwise you just killed meditation.
Incorrect. Meditation is deliberate focus of awareness.
You are proselytizing for a single type of meditation process, for a single type of goal.
You know what? Maybe you're right, maybe meditation is indeed "deliberate focus of awareness" and all this time I've been deliberately focusing my awareness on becoming aware of whatever pops up in my conscious experience and then choosing to not get absorbed/hypnotized by it.
Goodnight, I love you my friend.
>any focus of awareness is meditation
Frickin kids not being taught how to use language properly
>cant even quote what is said to complain about use of language
>cant say anything against it anyway
Time for bed, grandpa. You've sundowned early.
>what do you mean my post came across like this
>you cant just tell me what I sound like
need to be 18 to post here, kid
>comers across like
>mad about his feelings
>no salient point
>no counter even attempted
Pathetic.
Please elaborate more, tell me what meditation is, I'm not that anon you quoted by the way.
meditation is simply the cultivation of awareness itself
this is a base thing where the cultivation of awareness will help keep it focused when doing tasks
but those other tasks or sports or what not lol just are not meditation
no more than contemplation is
though many have conflated those terms
even in poor translations like MA's "meditations" which should be called "contemplations"
but these distinctions have been made by those who have no cultivation under their belt, so they dont have much basis to differentiate and use the words accurately and properly
>tell me what meditation is
This was already given and they have not been able to refute anything said.
Even their reeeesponse is simply a rewording of exactly what they are screeching about.
I don' understand, where did you define what meditation is? Which one is your post?
All but the one with the graph are mine.
Meditation is deliberate focus of awareness.
Another analogy would be strength training.
There are many ways to build a muscle, and for many reasons. It would be silly to say there is only one way, and for only one goal.
Empty mind is meditation, go with that. If the basics aren't clear people delude themselves.
That is akin to saying pushups are exercise. Sure it's true, but there's so much more in that category.
That is my point.
Dogmatists are pushing only one type, for only one goal, and so many here on /x/ arent even aware of how they have been limited.
> If the basics aren't clear people delude themselves.
See? They KNOW there is more, but they intentionally restrict info.
It is an attempt to control you.
Dont let others dictate your life.
The mind must not think for meditation to happen, repeating mantras and such doesn't count as thinking.
>repeating mantras and such doesn't count as thinking.
>engaging your mental process and forming words doesnt count
they dont count, as much
be rest assured, they count
any body activity counts, simple as
that is why one searches for the energetic maxima coincident with the consumption minima
>engaging your mental process
Do that and you are not meditating.
>The mind
Never once said that meditation is about the mind or thinking.
You cannot address what I have said.
Other anon is half correct. You can engage the mind in your meditation, but meditation is about deliberate focus of AWARENESS.
It is not a mental process in and of itself.
Where they are wrong is thinking there is no possibility of a meditation practice that engages the mind.
Because they have been fed a dogma that they cannot shake.
You are missing the point, get the basics straight first. Any moron can think, not thinking is what requires mastery, after that mind can be used to gently guide the meditation that still happens mostly without the mind.
>think
For a third time. I am not talking about thinking. I am talking about awareness.
thinking and not thinking is not meditation. Meditation is about awareness. Thinking can be USED in meditative processes.
>any focused act
No. Deliberate focus OF AWARENESS.
You keep trying to attack strawmen.
Meditation is not a mental process, as evidenced by those that attempt to remove all mental process in their meditation.
>I am telling you things borne of practice-experience
And you think there is zero possibility of any other practice and experience.
That is why you are so dogmatic about it, and why your mind is so closed to one trying to expand your understanding.
Just see how upset and aggressive they get simply for someone saying there are other ways to meditate, and other reasons to do so.
No one said their way is invalid.
No one said their way is a negative.
And yet here they are - attacking over and over and over at the very NOTION of meditation being more than one process, for one goal.
Dogma.
When you don't think what remains?
Irrelevant to my point.
It is certainly possible to deliberate focus your awareness on nothingness.
That is one type of meditation.
A VERY good style of meditation to help with trauma and repetitive thought patterns is cognitive behavior therapy. Deliberately focusing awareness on the cycles of one's mental process can allow one to more accurately notice what begins such cycles and mitigate the harm/severity, heal the emotional reactions to those thoughts, and eventually improve how the mind and intelligence process and cycle.
>cognitive behavior therapy
Thank you, I will surely check it out.
>notice what begins such cycles and mitigate the harm/severity,
this is a necessary part of skillful application, its a crucial part of learning how to catch and hold the spark of samahdi when the conditions are well met for its arising.
this stuff helps in those mundane life sitations also, because getting stressed and having your body produce all that...takes up energy, can and will kill the gung required for samahdi to arise
guard this base energy!
>I am talking about awareness.
I think of it as awareness of nothingness.
Awareness is everything you fricking clown.
Who the hell said it wasn't shitforbrains?
look its fantastic you're able to grasp some low hanging fruit
but your practice lacks depth
and that's why you're assmad I'm pointing out apparent gaps that would have filled some depth in for your gongfu
Quote ANYWHERE where I have detailed my meditative practices.
I dont have to detail them, your words alone are enough to know your practice lacks depth
sorry kid
>Never once said that meditation is about the mind or thinking
you're oversimplifying the equation here, one who thinks any focused act is meditation
>engaging a mental process is not engaging a mental process
this is where you're wrong, kiddo
>Because they have been fed a dogma that they cannot shake.
idgaf what anyone writes, I adhere to the buddha's advice to parse it by my own acumen. I am telling you things borne of practice-experience, not things I've read in a book.
sorry kid nobody else is going to accept your whimsical and arbitrarily applied parameters for these words. you have no basis of experience regarding meditation to be able to discern and definitively say one way or another. simply evident in your words.
There's a difference between those forms of soft meditation, and actual forms of hard meditation practiced in the east, not just by Buddhists, but also by Mohists, Daoists, Hindus, and Jains. After learning some basics on NeiGong I got to a point of pumping chi into my Lower Dan Tien that the chi leaked out of my LDT and singed a physical hole in a seat covering. Your boxers and ravers will never be able to replicate that by their 'soft meditation'. You can be uppity about the definition of the word, but you can't deny that there is a massive difference in what the people in the East are doing and your 'ravers'.
If you got chi leaking out of your lower physical hole onto the seat you should probably see a proctologist
Do you even know what the Lower Dantien is? It leaked into my right thigh. Try reading actual books on the topic.
Are deep on the spectrum are you? That was very clearly a joke
for the reader
this is why you dont do random energy moving shit and then dont ever close practices properly
you wind up not even listening when you're told steps to correct it
'goals' is over-complicating it. sit the frick down. shut the frick up. i'm not being zen, i'm being literal.
Just see how they insist.
Besides from the negative method to focus awareness, there is the engagement method.
Engage your mind in thinking on the subject.
Engage your passive senses to observe the subject.
Engage your active senses to interact with the subject.
The dogmatic says there is only negation.
No thought.
No observing.
No interacting.
This is not the only way.
lay down to sleep, do not fall asleep.
you are not allowed to strain to keep yourself from falling asleep, nor any other imaginable action or doing.
good luck!
the best way is to sit the frick down and shut the frick up. anything else is over-complicating it.
>anything else is over-complicating it.
But thank you for giving another example.
Programmers do indeed meditate, and can enter states of trance they call Flow State.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/flow-state
Another clear example of a different process of meditation, for a different goal.
Learn to still the mind, focus, visualize, and move awareness.
Try and rise out of the astral phases, as alluring as they may be... many plateau there. I'd recommend Hiroshi Motoyama's work as being exceptional for understanding the theory.
Mantras or pranayama (breathing exercises)
I can't handle that sitting quietly watching your breath shit except at the end after those
also it seems pozzed and buddhist
>I dont wanna put in the work I just want to pick the fruit
Doesn't work that way, sweaty
((someone)) called me a false prophet, I must be doing something right, they used to call someone pretty important that.
pointing out gaps in your practice application and advice to others is not calling you a false prophet, grasshoppa
literally an exact quote
ok newbie do you even know who you're responding to
((someone)) called me a false prophet, I must be doing something right. they used to call someone pretty important that.
What is the goal of your practice ? If insight is what you seek then simply asking oneself questions about the external world will help. Just sit quite and focus. Have a look around. Get a feel. The key is to just relax and let the answers or clues come to you. Focus on the relaxation and reception.
The success of this practice greatly depends on the moral qualities of the practitioner. Improvements are always good.
Hang upside down off of your bed and that'll clear your head.
Sufi whirling is another form of engagement meditation.
Holy crap he’s floatong!! I wanna follow in this guys footsteps so that I can float like him
He didn't float when they hanged him
no sir he did not
Go learn what the 6 yoga of naropa are and what the prep exercises are
>https://app.wakingup.com/scholarship
Simple, effective, free, non of the unjustifiable esoterica and woo woo. Just the important esoterica
Anything other than striving to be a Suddha Bhakti Yogi basically guarantees at minimum reincarnation and at worst a Hell-Loka.
Bump
Nice Numbers
the one you keep going with
Sometimes, it depends on your temperament.
Save us Anime Jesus!
>Farting so hard you have liftoff
Majestic.
Kundalini, peace, violence, death, etc.
nam-myoho-renge-kyo
Dunno about "best," but bouncing on your ass thinking you are flying is probably the dumbest.
Looks like a lot of fun
cope so hard you get exhuasted and can't continue.
Sit and be aware, don't analyze anything, if analyzations/thoughts come then just become aware that they are nothing more and don't feed them more thought.
Daily practice of this will usually lead you towards a path of practice which is yours and only yours and it depends on who you are. Your path may be about your awareness settling on your breath, or on some "chakra" point/center on your body, or it will be about you entering silence and going deeper into it, or it will be about tons of forgotten memories popping up for no clear reason.
Whatever your path is just accept it even if it changes along the way, sit without intention other than just to be aware, become so aware that it pierces through any thought of doubt (like "Maybe I am not doing this right" or "This isn't getting me nowhere").
discord
/8pWu8SJe
Reply to this post and immediately meditate. My spirit will be with you.
I am replying to your post as requested.
Comfortably. But not too comfy. Shit, y'know what? However the frick you want to. On your head? Frickin' go for it. Just practice mindfulness, or shit mindlessness if you're into that sort of thing. Quietly? Sure! With loud mantras sung from the solar plexus? I'm not gonna stop you. Start counting your breaths while following katas. Just, not while touching kids.
If you are just starting.
Just notice your thoughts as they run through your head and let them go.
Just notice and detach from them.
With enough practice this will help you develop mindfulness, where you notice your thought all day and you stop running on autopilot.
there's not much point in noticing if you're not also putting effort into keeping the awareness ungapped by thoughts or spaces.
this is why train the breath, to reduce the extraneous neural potentials that build up to form random thoughts
which break your concentration, prevent deeper states from arising, destroys the great stillness or samahdi if already manifested
Baby steps.
You have to learn to crawl before you learn to walk.
You don't have to teach people to sprint if they are still tripping over their own feet.
So you'd advice a person with trauma and some anxiety like me to literally ignore all his anxious thoughts (which feel super important to me) and just put awareness on his breath?
I wouldn't.
I would notice them and try and detach from them.
Let them just go.
If they keep coming back I would journal, like a memory dump.
This is when you are first starting and it's hard to go a couple minutes meditating and thoughts keep coming into your head.
Just notice the thought and let it go.
Thank you.
Indeed this is what many occult masters like Franz Brandon say: that one should first known thyself before esle.
I don't mean to degrade olfactory anon's practice since I've experienced, read and heard that calming the breath is indeed the gateway to deeper meditative states, but it seems that for people who are clouded all day long from their over-active thinking minds then journalling and watching thoughts for the purpose of distancing yourself from them is a good place to start.
there's a certain amount of self reflection that is good and necessary
then there's a point of wasted energy on the process, for there's nothing more to be gained by further rumination on it
skillful application is the process of knowing oneself thoroughly enough to see clearly where this line is
but ffs dont be doing these things during meditative practice, that's all I'm saying. then you're really wasting your session and getting no real meditative benefits from it, because the whole time was spent in contemplation.
and people who get contemplation and meditation confused have never made meditative progress to understand the rather stark difference between the two.
no offense on that it just is what it is and only the ignorant or naive will disagree on that. because thinking burns chi and if you're trying to cultivate and burn at the same time its just simply counterproductive, I dont know how much more simply I can put it.
by noticing you are giving them energy
this is why when training breath, always return to the practice when you catch your awareness doing something else
if one isnt getting past this then one honestly shouldnt be proceeding past it with other things...if one wants a solid foundation with robust, repeatable results.
No you aren't.
You are training your mind for mindfulness.
So that you catch your thought throughout the day.
So that you can notice when you are on auto pilot.
Resisting and trying to forceful block out your thoughts gives them energy.
You are trying to take people who never meditated and turn them into masters without teaching them the steps in between.
you have a fundamental misunderstanding about what mindfulness even is
>Resisting and trying to forceful block out your thoughts gives them energy.
a habit can never be eliminated, a habit must be replaced by another habit. indeed, humans are habitual creatures.
its better to tell them how to get out of the rut instead of telling them to just hit the gas pedal, the vehicle will get out of the rut eventually.
I'm teaching a method that's not going to waste time, you're teaching a method thats simply most likely to perpetuate the dynamic off over the horizon
You're teaching them not to have thoughts?
Does that mean you don't have thoughts?
pay attention and stop being moronic
I'm sorry dismantled your bullshit so easily.
Try harder next time.
yes, because its a noncommutative operation whereby the opposite of something does not produce its opposite as the outcome
whereas a simple sine wave can be effectively canceled by a 180 out of phase sine wave,
these mental processes are too complex
thusly it becomes that one can never really eliminate a habit quite so much as replace it with another
(this means do something else to attenuate the undesirable pattern)
breathwork has the benefit of helping tame neurological potentials generated from sense processing
these feed into the random thought generator mechanism
a very solid way to tamp them down
when the practitioner well habituates it, of course
at least for when you're doing meditative training. I mean I'm not discouraging self analysis or anything silly
but when its time to practice, put all that other shit down
The first thing to accept is that samadhi is conditioned, So to get into samadhi the condition for it's arising must be triggered.
The condition to get into samadhi is pleasure and calm. To get that you need morality and mindfulness to keep the unskillful states of mind away from you.
AN 11.2 PTS: A v 312
Cetana Sutta: An Act of Will
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.
"For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse.
"For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture arises in a joyful person.
"For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person grows serene in body.
"For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a person serene in body experiences pleasure.
"For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.
"For a person whose mind is concentrated, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I know & see things as they actually are.' It is in the nature of things that a person whose mind is concentrated knows & sees things as they actually are.
"For a person who knows & sees things as they actually are, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I feel disenchantment.' It is in the nature of things that a person who knows & sees things as they actually are feels disenchantment.
"For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release.
"In this way, dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward. Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward. Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward. Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward. Pleasure has concentration as its purpose, concentration as its reward. Serenity has pleasure as its purpose, pleasure as its reward. Rapture has serenity as its purpose, serenity as its reward. Joy has rapture as its purpose, rapture as its reward. Freedom from remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward. Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward.
"In this way, mental qualities lead on to mental qualities, mental qualities bring mental qualities to their consummation, for the sake of going from the near to the Further Shore."
>The first thing to accept is that samadhi is conditioned, So to get into samadhi the condition for it's arising must be triggered.
this is correct, the body must be conditioned to exist in the state of samahdi
calm definitely but pleasure seems to be an odd word to use
you have to habituate
you have to build gung
you have to lengthen the breaths
you have to disappear the air turbulence
you have to keep the awareness
you have to keep the awareness
then the stage is set for the great stillness
but even this is just a small precursor, as cool as that movement within the great stillness is
the first time the spark of samahdi arises, it is guaranteed to shock you right out of that state, its such an amazing experience
it takes some time to learn how to catch and hold the spark
but once you can
sublime
this is why train in rote fashion, for it ensures the spark's return, soon
otherwise....good luck waiting for the conditions to arrange themselves again
the body doesn't need to be conditioned.
The only thing to do with the body is feeding it and cleaning it.
no need for luck once you understand and cultivate the condition for samadhi
>calm definitely but pleasure seems to be an odd word to use
pleasure is important because it's form this that the mind gets concentrated instead of looking outwards
>>you have to disappear the air turbulence
no, breathing stops at the 4th jahan spontaneously, no need to force anything
>the body doesn't need to be conditioned.
sorry zoomy you akshually have to put in work or you're not really going to get anywhere
this is one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on /x/
>no need for luck once you understand and cultivate the condition for samadhi
que irony
>pleasure is important because it's form this that the mind gets concentrated instead of looking outwards
esl zoomer please rephrase in english
>no, breathing stops at the 4th jahan spontaneously, no need to force anything
you really are clueless and uncultivated
in case completely uncultivated individuals cannot notice this
book knowledge is no substitute for real practice, son
>How You Develop Mindfulness-of-breathing To Absorption (Knowing & Seeing - Talk 1 by Pa-Auk Sayadaw)
>How You Develop Absorption on Other Subjects (Talk 2 from book "Knowing & Seeing" by Pa-Auk Sayadaw)
>How You Develop the Sublime Abidings & Protective Mediations (Knowing & Seeing--Talk 3 by Pa-Auk S.)
>How You Discern Materiality (Knowing & Seeing – Talk 4 by Pa-Auk Sayadaw)
>How You Discern Mentality (Knowing & Seeing – Talk 5 by Pa-Auk Sayadaw)
whys that guy bashing his nuts on the floor?
The dogmatic attacks have shown how baseless they are.
Meditation is deliberate focus of awareness, which is exactly the same thing claimed by my critics when pressed to define it.
It is not one practice.
It is not for one goal.
>awareness
What do you call awareness?
What word other than awareness are you looking for?
Do you prefer cit? Perception? Experience? Ksetra-jna?
>>What word other than awareness are you looking for?
how should i know, you're the one talking about it without explaining anything
The fundamental basis of existence. There is no possibility of you not grokking awareness, it is only possible to not be able to communicate that understanding.
okay so this part
>Meditation is deliberate focus of awareness
is incomplete. the proper way to speak is ''something focuses on something''
Awareness focuses on anything and everything. Deliberately doing so on something is meditation.
>Deliberately doing so on something is meditation.
No
make some meditative accomplishment and you might understand why since you arent getting it from being told directly
Counter question, though.
Why am I the only one in the thread challenged to define this?
If there was a consistent anon challenging me, this was their definition.
Do they also need to define awareness? I doubt they will say anything much different than I.
So after reading this whole thread I came to the conclusion that meditation is all about being aware/focused and the oldactory anon says that you should be aware/focused of the breath in order to calm it so you can enter higher states of consciousness.
While the other 2-3 guys say that you can be aware/focused of anything and that also counts as meditation, however the olfactory anon says that this doesn't count as meditation.
But...I think I gotta agree with the other 2-3 guys: you can be meditative when doing ANYTHING, you can watch thoughts without building uppon them, you do that while keeping a distance from them thus you aren't contemplating - you are MEDITATING on them.
They arent wrong - quiet, breath focused meditation is one of the most effective negation styles for the purpose of ego removal and self-realization (or noself-realization, depending on tradition).
I just dont accept that as the ONLY way to meditate, and the ONLY reason to meditate.
Boxing may be the best system ever devised to punch effectively. But it isnt the only way to learn to punch, and not everyone learns to punch to become a champion.
nah I'm just telling you guys that breathwork is where you start
and if you want rigor you train the hell out of it
program the body well and you're only doing a comparatively smaller amount of it
once you're able to manifest the spark of samahdi you sure af are not doing breathwork
but its not gonna come regularly at all if you havent done breathwork and habituate it very thoroughly
first meditation is a tool to achieve something
second there are plenty of meditations, some are better at achieving the goal you seek, some are worse
In buddhism the goal of meditation is either samatha or samatha+vipassana, ie tranquility or tranquility+insights
The breath meditation that everybody knows about is purely buddhist. In India the hindus and the jains also have a ''breath meditation'' but it's just ''holding your breath'' and the buddha even said he practiced it it's shit.
For the breath meditation, the goal is samatha+vipassana and the method is to ''calm the formations''. And the breath is a tool to stop the mind wandering.
So it goes like this :
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/RightMindfulness/Section0007.html
>The fact that the process of origination is understood through the manipulation of causal factors is also borne out by a fifth passage, in MN118, in which the Buddha explains how the establishing of mindfulness is to be cultivated and developed. In this case, his instructions are more specific, showing the precise way in which his approach to meditation is proactive and experimental. The passage starts by describing sixteen steps in breath meditation, and then shows how each tetrad, or set of four steps, brings one of the four establishings of mindfulness to the culmination of its development. We will consider the full passage in more detail in Chapters Six and Seven. Here I would like to focus on the steps themselves, and the establishing of mindfulness that each tetrad develops. I have put the steps in boldface so that you can easily locate them again when you want to remind yourself of what each step entails.
>The steps developing the first establishing of mindfulness:
“[1] Breathing in long, he discerns, ‘I am breathing in long’; or breathing out long, he discerns, ‘I am breathing out long.’ [2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, ‘I am breathing in short’; or breathing out short, he discerns, ‘I am breathing out short.’ [3] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.’ [4] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.’
>The steps developing the second establishing of mindfulness:
“[5] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.’ [6] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.’ [7] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.’ [8] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.’
>The steps developing the third establishing of mindfulness:
“[9] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.’ [10] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in gladdening the mind.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out gladdening the mind.’ [11] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in steadying the mind.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out steadying the mind. [12] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in releasing the mind.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out releasing the mind.’
>The steps developing the fourth establishing of mindfulness:
“[13] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in focusing on inconstancy.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out focusing on inconstancy.’ [14] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in focusing on dispassion [literally, fading].’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out focusing on dispassion.’ [15] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in focusing on cessation.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out focusing on cessation.’ [16] He trains himself, ‘I will breathe in focusing on relinquishment.’ He trains himself, ‘I will breathe out focusing on relinquishment.’” —MN118
What stands out most prominently in this list of steps is the amount of willed, proactive activity they involve. Steps 3 through 16 are all described as acts of self-training, in which you set the intention to breathe in a particular way and—while consciously breathing—to pay attention to a particular topic with the purpose of developing it in a particular direction. You’re not simply aware of what’s happening in the present moment, for each training is expressed in the future tense: “I will breathe…” You want to move the present moment into a particular future direction. This is how these sixteen steps develop not only mindfulness and alertness, but also their companion quality of ardency.
The Buddha was clearly conscious of the proactive nature of these sixteen steps, for he explicitly recommended them as superior to a more passive and equanimous approach to mindfulness of breathing.
The Blessed One said, “Monks, do you develop mindfulness of in-&-out breathing?”
When this was said, Ven. Ariṭṭha replied to the Blessed One, “I develop mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, lord.”
“But how do you develop mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, Ariṭṭha?”
“Having abandoned sensual desire for past sensual pleasures, lord, having done away with sensual desire for future sensual pleasures, and having thoroughly subdued perceptions of irritation with regard to internal & external events, I breathe in mindfully and breathe out mindfully.”
“There is that mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, Ariṭṭha. I don’t say that there isn’t. But as to how mindfulness of in-&-out breathing is brought in detail to its culmination, listen and pay close attention. I will speak.” [The Buddha then details the sixteen steps.] —SN54:6
The Commentary reads Ariṭṭha’s statement here as indicating he has reached the third level of awakening, non-return, where all sensuality and irritation have been totally abandoned. But the fact that Ariṭṭha has to subdue irritation here shows that he hasn’t totally abandoned it. In fact, from what we know of him from other discourses in the Canon (such as MN22, where he refuses to abandon a pernicious wrong view), it’s highly improbable that he has reached any high level of attainment. A more likely interpretation is that he’s simply practicing mindful equanimity in the present moment, having temporarily subdued desire for past and future sensual pleasures, and having temporarily subdued any thought of irritation with regard to the present.
>just ''holding your breath'' and the buddha even said he practiced it it's shit.
kek
breath holds have their places, but those are for specific cultivation exercises
most practices are some sort of cultivation exercise but I wouldnt necessarily consider them meditation (cultivation of awareness)
when you're training anything else, I pretty much dont consider it to be meditation, this goes for all sorts of energy works & breath practices that are not anapanasati
but people shouldnt be insulted that I say these things are cultivation and not really meditation, despite the requirement of a meditative mindset.
make some advancements and perhaps the reader will see these distinctions also
holds have their places, but those are for specific cultivation exercises
yeah apparently at the time, the buddha really took this seriously for meditation and all he got was headaches.
>you can watch thoughts without building upon them
this is also a fundamental misunderstanding
as I've stated, thinking consumes the energy potential that is absolutely necessary for advanced meditative states to arise
so any of it, goodbye to advanced states during that session
this is a fact, frens
a "meditative mindset" merely denotes some qualities
but if one wants to do real meditation and make advanced states arise, you're simply going to have to face these facts I'm telling you.
in mortal combat... while playing vidya
pretty sure I had several odd experiences while in the zone
total ego death, visons of past/preset/future combined, etc.
you literally need to try harder than you think you can, and in order to do that you just need to stop thinking and completely feel it
but it requires a ton of practice to fall back on; which is probably why sitting, laying, walking meditation werks for people
so if you want to be a zengay 24/7, you probably need to practice living until you're fundamentally in a constant state of zero anxiety(aka excessive reflection) and no hesitation with genuine spontaneity
living ofc can be very painful and that gets everyone thinking twice
which is also probably why some of the advice about pain is to stop trying to avoid it and rather dive right in: because there will be no further pains to worry about
Really good post, can you please give more advice?
in a way meditation teaches you to not take yourself seriously
when losing my sense of self while tryharding, from the outside perspective one might think "there he is!"
meanwhile my thoughts are elsewhere and in fact I don't even consider "I" in the equation let alone consider them my thoughts
and yet people still see a person there, alive and well, thriving even, with personality, and will tell you all about yourself
I think part of the reason why it's so hard to enter that world is because our language constantly reenforces an identity of yourself
it's nearly impossible to have an intelligent well thought out thought without yourself lol and it's even harder to communicate it
like the very mention of you implies an absolute me so it's very easy to get caught up in the illusion, become disconnected from reality, and require some massive cultural cope detour to reacquire grace or faith in life to become steadfast functioning again
so, what meditation is good at is observing yourself
you'll have thoughts about thoughts about thoughts and observe yourself observing yourself observing yourself
all of that just happens without much input or design and it's impossible to escape... willingly that is
because you'll also have moments perfectly at peace while feeling, no, becoming the world in some profound unspeakable way
but it'll pass; it'll all pass and there's nothing (you) can do to hold on which is another piece of advice gurugays usually impart
it gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "get the frick over yourself, butthole" when normalgays just want you to get to work and they actually have a very good point
ultimately, so called enlightenment could just be about self-acceptance, but before you can do that: you might need to discover a real hint of what self actually is, because language is no substitute for experience and it can only point at some mutual understandings
You have truly discovered something, I wish that one day I will come to realizations like yourself.
>but it'll pass; it'll all pass and there's nothing (you) can do to hold on
Can you please elaborate on this part please?
>but it'll pass; it'll all pass and there's nothing (you) can do to hold on
phenomena manifest because the conditions are arranged for their arising
you dont focus on the scenery
just keep arranging the conditions without perturbation or attachment to anything happening
stay diligent and success is sure to come
doubt and falter and success will be exceedingly hard to grasp
>i couldn't focus at all, i was so uncomfortable and awkward, and there was a pain in my back as soon as i woke up
it'll pass
>i really feel like i'm understanding things, it was all actually pretty cool, and my body must be getting used to my new job—i finally made it
it'll pass
it's literally the inevitable that can be both a sense of relief and heartbreak
moreover you can't really tell if those annoyances and pleasantries were good or bad
...was the first day really misfortunate or did it set you on a path to greater fortune by pushing you to reach out to the best of people in ur misery
...and that nice day you had a few weeks later, in your good mood did you forget about garbage day; which means yardwork will be awful inconvenient that week lol
maybe!
you really don't know and that's why things like immense belief and faith are so important in our life
to overcome not only the bad times, but the good times too
and taking a little time to "touch grass" through experience with meditation can help provide perspective, and broaden your horizons, as tragedy turns into comedy and marriage as the show goes on
>you'll have thoughts about thoughts about thoughts and observe yourself observing yourself observing yourself
>all of that just happens without much input or design and it's impossible to escape... willingly that is
anyone saying this simply hasnt reached a stage of practice where the mind is constantly clear with no random thoughts popping up
>ultimately, so called enlightenment could just be about self-acceptance
from the depths of the great stillness leaps a brilliant spark
set up the regimen properly and the spark arrives for a moment each day
cultivate it well and the moment lasts as long as you can keep your attention, for random thoughts or losing the attention makes the state immediately disappear
but I believe this can eventually be an ongoing enlightenment, just because I didnt attain it in an ongoing sense
real spiritual light is not a belief
the ongoing enlightenment process indeed generates this
real diligent practice yields real tangible results that are beyond question to the practitioner experiencing them
The Rosicrucians say meditation is very dangerous if you do it right and you need a teacher. Is this true?
internal alchemy is dangerous if performed incorrectly or without guidance from an accomplished teacher.
>teh r34l meditation
>only one way, what I say
>incorrect understanding of another sanskrit term to try and feign authority
It is so obvious who is following dogma.