How do Magic, Psychic Powers & Chi (or energy-based, think kriya yoga) type stuff interact amongst one another? If someone, for example, had psychic powers and wanted to use magick, would he get a different effect than someone who doesn't have them?
Would one already give you the other or cancel one out?
In primitive settings, does someone who is supposed to be a shaman actually just have psychic powers or heightened energy levels?
Why can psychics speak to spirits if they don't have spiritual, but mental powers?
Are these 3 just various ways to (energy)?
I don't want to complicate it further due to my limited experience & understanding, but as far as I get it - magic is manipulating energy through rituals and spells and usually the help of external forces, psychic powers are moving and interacting with energy using your mind only, while chi (or whatever the hell we will call it, you'll get the gist) is using and cultivating the energy inside of you to accomplish superhuman feats?
Does it just boil down to Spiritual - Mental - Physical?
Thank you for baring this atrociously composed post, have an awesome day and life <3
We dont know how it works we just know that it does like quantum mechanics. When you meditate and get tactile synesthesia sensations that is a type of energy called prana. As you meditate and take in more and become aware of it you realize what it is... you might consider it aether or ambient energy. Sometimes i wonder if its energy thats produced from the temperature difference betweeen my body and the air. Psyche can mean mind spirit or soul
I'm sure someone knows!
And, that's interesting, meanings and semantics have a lot of value in this discussion too, thats why I noted my limited experience and understanding hahahha. As for the prana part, its weird, but maybe it would be clearer to us if we practiced more and got to a level where we can easily utilize it.
Another note - maybe psychics can perceive spiritual stuff because the mind is the bridge of physical and spiritual like Carl Jung said?
You think it's all different disciplines like some RPG while in reality it's often different approaches and methodologies toward the same phenomena.
> don't want to complicate it further due to my limited experience & understanding, but as far as I get it - magic is manipulating energy through rituals and spells and usually the help of external forces, psychic powers are moving and interacting with energy using your mind only, while chi (or whatever the hell we will call it, you'll get the gist) is using and cultivating the energy inside of you to accomplish superhuman feats?
In fricking video games. In reality, eastern spiritual arts recognize three aspects:
Whiel they may not be recognized or characterized differently, or the categorization can be completely different, a western occultist from the standpoint of the eastern one will also be developing those qualities, albeit in different ways, to different ends and so on. Similarly with psychic.
Accomplished psychic will be considered a practitioner who just practices differently and relies on innate, unrefined abilities by a western practitioner by comparison, for example.
Even in boundaries of single of those groups there's huge differences. A western occultist may develop some psychic powers thorough his training, which a yogi would call a siddhi - supernatural powers that can act as measurement sticks of one's understanding and spiritual progress. A neidan practitioner may see him a (deviating or otherwise practitioning weirdly or not) neidan practitioner from another school/tradition/master.
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There are differences, various practices are not fully interchangeable, but those differences come down to cosmology.
You seem to have no clue about certain basic elements, for example, what are rituals and spells - those are more like mnemonics, procedures, sequences of symbolic acts and thoughts to help but the power almost always lies within practitioner no less than a psychic or eastern cultivator.
I strongly recommend for you to lurk some more first, read a few decent introductory books and so on. Right now you give a strong impression of someone who bases their whole understanding of such things from popculture works of fiction or at least fantasy games.
Think of such things more like of different people using computers. They may have slightly different setup, perspective, goals. One of them may be making awesome 3D animations, while another is mixing music and yet another is programming. Even one 3D animator may different from another - using different ways to make those animations or even different programs.
Now think they all seek some attainment in making a game and they go with different guides. There's different programming languages, some harder to use, some give benefits others don't. There's also "game maker" programs. And each of those users may choose a different one, with the way he uses it and the skills in use of it completely unsuitable for if they'd choose another of those programs. Now, to make a video game they also may - but don't have to - also do something beside programming/using that ready-made editor. One may want to make a 3D game and use his animations, another may decide on sprite art or ignore it all and use ASCII. Maybe someone wants awesome surround music while another just wants chip tunes. Guide of one of them suggests awesome audiovisual assets that will immerse the player in otherwise simple but beautiful game loop while someone else will make a crudely looking text game but concentrate on writing a wonderful story, riveting descriptions and thoughtful dialogues. Completely different approaches, skills despite being of similar categories, even perception and belief on what constitutes a game they'd want to make.
Aaah I see! And some just decide to hack an already made game, is this right?
That may be going too far with the analogy. It's just different traditions may concentrate on different aspects, approach, what, how and why but they will still work with the same basic fundamentals of the reality, even if see them differently and some of them do it more consciously than the others.
Another comparison:
Be it dance, martial art or a ritual, they all may need particular gestures. The why of those gestures, the meaning behind them, the goal the gestures Are performed for may differ and be seen differently, in some gesture may be more/less important, noticeable and practical but it's still a gesture that has value in those different arts.
>What are some good introductory books or dare I ask practices to this
It's hard to give you some nice, light titles if all you do is looking for some material to write your fiction better rather than practice anything. Same with finding something that would get you a complete idea without being misleading. A few titles from a certain copypasta would be:
>Advanced Magic for Beginner by Alan Chapman
Simplistic but thus easy to approach explanation of some basic occult concepts to learn more about once one chooses a tradition to study. May be a bit misleading, but at least touched upon a lot.
>Liber Null + Psychonaut by Peter J. Carroll
Basics from the standpoint of counter-cultural, modern chaos magic tradition. Recommended to see things from a bit different perspective compared to other traditions, also very important explanations on the nature of symbolism and belief in magic.
>Kybalion
Unlike what most anons think, it's not too "orthodox" approach to western hermeticism, as it's looking at it through lens of questionable New Thought movement but the differences are small enough that it's still a good book on that topic, with some more indepth explanations of hermetic perspective.
Add something for the eastern perspective. Many people like Mitchell so maybe
>Daoist Nei Gong by Damo Mitchell
Thank you so so so much for the thorough explanation, this makes more sense now.
You're right in that I'm not fully grasping the basics, it just gets a bit confusing because I am considering these things very different in the first place if that makes sense. Part of it may be because I tend to categorize and write lists, and another part may be because I've not practiced anything other than regular meditation.
I do not believe that any video game or most pop culture stuff I know of are really indicative of these things or that they can teach me of how anything works, but it is true that I am sorta looking at this from a 'comic/game' perspective.
I am writing a comic, and I want to put "these things" into it effectively, and don't wanna make some bullshit gimmicky "power system", I just want to have an explanation as to why people can do certain things. Another thing is that I wouldn't say PSYCHIC POWER WORKS LIKE X or MAGIC WORKS LIKE Y, its more like 'this nuance of this happens this way, in this world which is fundamentally different to ours' so I don't infringe and look like I'm claiming to understand something if I really don't hahaha
I've lurked quite a lot for greentexts and inspo, and I've saved up a lot of stuff in my archive but I always fail to go back to them to really study hahahah...
What are some good introductory books or dare I ask practices to this?
>What are some good introductory books or dare I ask practices to this?
Initiation Into Hermetics is what many like. Made by Franz Bardon. He makes some mistakes/deviations from other hermeticists but at least the first basic steps are good training.
Thank you man I am noting it! Hopefully one of those books you all reccomended can be not bought for 800 dollars hahaha. I heard a lot of occult books are expensive as frick.
All or almost all of the (e)books mentioned ITT one could download from a mega account in O&M general threads before, dunno if it's still around. They're not exactly rare in any other decent ebook repository. If you want to buy physical copies, that's great though - they shouldn't be too expensive.
Wohooo! And maybe I can find them at my local library since I found a mason spellbook there there lol
>Whiel they may not be recognized or characterized differently, or the categorization can be completely different, a western occultist from the standpoint of the eastern one will also be developing those qualities, albeit in different ways, to different ends and so on.
Kinda why something like meditation in some form (different approaches to meditation, some merely mental exercises or uncommon ways to reach meditative-like state) is present in nearly all serious occult traditions, western, eastern, more symbolic, spiritual and poetic or practical and result-oriented, religious or scientific.
No matter the cosmology, there's still the related qualities that are used even if ultimately one tries to bend spoons with their mind and someone else contact God for guidance and miracles (which doesn't mean the God and the act of telekinesis is the same - there are spiritual beings out there, there are also forces that aren't exactly beings but not phenomena either or are merely proxy/aspects in particular form of yet other beings/phenomena - the state of what is and how it is and what's merely perception of what it is is kind of tricky at times and sometimes how we see things affect what we actually reach).
There, crash course in esoterics. Frick did I make it convoluted all on its own. Sorry, but it is a huge topic with lots of nuance, guess that's why it's a kind of shit studied in different forms all over the world since forever.
All good man, thank you so much! I get that it's a really big subject with a shit ton of variety but that's why I find it interesting.
I also don't mind practicing really, like if I am already reading it I will utilize it not only in writing, as long as I am not praising any deities, that would simply be dishonest of me.
The only thing I've actually "practiced" are the Gateway Tapes and a some yoga meditations and I've attempted one or two spells but I haven't gotten consistent or too deep into either. I liked the Manly P. Hall lecture about self development, but that's 'bout it.
ill put this way
all the rituals and accesories, are to put you in "the mood" or whatever, is to make you believe, but esentially all rituals are larping
they work in the sense that they make you feel more of a certain way or mood that is conducive for you to believe in yourself
but nothing of nothing of that stuff is needed, in fact those can limit you greatly in the future, look at what happened to organized religions
the highest magic even transcend the verbal, although the verbal is very very very powerful
Somewhat but not exactly. As I've mentioned at
they are often mnemonics. You still need to go through thoughts of this and that, cast your intent and visualize this or that in some rituals for them to have a chance of success as presented - though it's all because of each of those elements have meaning and value in the boundaries of the cosmology the ritual stems from which you should fully understand if you attempt it - in which case all those symbols, their meaning and why you do what you do will be clear to you and you'll go beyond the empty gestures that just look like theatrics/LARP - because at this point those gestures won't be empty, or merely tool to "get you in the mood".
Yes, as mentioned, most rituals will have no power on their on, but like poem hiding subtly directions to treasure or recipe for an awesome cake, they will hold value for practitioner knowing how to properly see and interpret them, steps to ensure every meaning and act of will needed for the result to happen as expected is performed.
Would an adept be able then to do the same without similar ritual? Yeah, usually - he'd just do it all "in his head" or maybe even streamline it cutting out certain elements that will prove not needed to them. Bur like doing math in your head, using a ritual - a calculator - makes it a bit easier. There's also a matter of certain props through consecration and other preparations actually being more than just props and having tangible effect on the result of the ritual and perhaps some supernatural properties on their own, too - which would have to be accounted for or otherwise substituted without good substitutes of the props themselves. The ritual can be a symbol in itself of creating change and an event in physical world, hoping the reverbrations of the act will make an effect or more subtle layers of existence - after all, everything's connected, "as above, so below", sympathetic magic and so on.
Yeah I actually know this, people would put on masks and play 'roles' of spirits or gods, and sorta have access to that 'space' that way, right?
>Would one already give you the other or cancel one out?
Some practices help one another. Some encourage worldview and approach that simply neglects important parts of other practices. If you practice certain traditions, you have to be careful, because similar practices from elsewhere may disrupt delicate balance the first set of practices was built upon and thus hurt you or otherwise ruin your progress.
Ah I see, I'll look out for that, thank you so much man.
Everything is cyclical until proven otherwise, and yet wheels move forward. If you can get your hands on any part of a cycle, then everything in the cycle is always downstream of your hands. Which cycles do you understand how to hold gently?
What ur saying kinda sounds like "If you master one thing, you'll be better at mastering everything else" like Miyamoto Musashi said it. I'm not a master of anything yet but drawing & writint comes easiest.
You may find it interesting then that one of the forces that suppresses people's ability to draw today is the prevalence of printer paper. It does not have enough friction to create much drag on a pencil, and so important tactile feedback for learning how to draw a straight line is lost. This has an immediate impact on how people move their bodies because drawing a straight line requires the body to be capable of smoothly blending the motions of numerous muscles to keep the hand straight, and unlike curves it is immediately obvious when you mess up. A Master may not be able to notice this kind of effect unless he is teaching students simply because he can draw a straight line easily and most people do not remember learning things. This is why teaching is so important for a Master's development and for his awareness of the well being of his Art, but it is also easy for Masters to be cruel to their students by exploring these things.
Hhahahha that's really cool, I didn't know this! I better practice drawing straight lines then hahahah
Oh yeah not just drawing and writing, I can sing and perform music
I think focusing on something creates a subtle gravitational force that affects the ether. Some have more willpower than others but we all are able to manipulate the matrix at least to some extent, which is why rituals are typically done away from other people who will muddy the astral waters with their own intent.
Sigils and other ritual magic works on the subconscious mind, which is why the practitioner needs to be in a hypnotic trance for the ritual to work. It can be done without but it's much easier if a group of 300 or so people are all focusing on the same key that connects all of their willpower together as one massive force. That many minds focusing on a sigil will generate enough gravity to shift the subtle energy of the ether.
Ethereal beings of pure energy have been around long enough to cultivate a lot of power so they're often times asked for help with pulling the strings, being a teacher, or both.
I see, that's about how I thought it goes. Thank you lad. Does this "aether" link up with the same thing that Yoga says where you have a physical body, energy body, mental (ego?) body, and then etheric body if I remember correctly? Is this the same thing?
What kind of beings are they, like I've always kinda wondered if anyone took a picture of one or something, can they appear in physical form? Or how?
> What kind of beings are they, like I've always kinda wondered if anyone took a picture of one or something, can they appear in physical form? Or how?
They're dead people, and they can take a lot of different forms based on what they want and are capable of maintaining. The only spirits in the local universe are from Earth, animal and human. You have to learn how to use astral portal techniques if you want to travel to other realms and commune with the spirits there. Most people pass onto other realms when they die so most of the spirits you'll encounter as a novice (or with drug trips) are real stupid buttholes that didn't get invited to a heaven and didn't figure out anywhere better to be than Earth's purgatory.
Does Astral Projection work to meet local spirits? And aren't there also nature spirits like fairies and such? Or egregore-type spirits that spawn from collective thoughts about things? Plus I won't be doing any drugs hahah
>Is this the same thing?
I'm not sure. I read that your ghost gets stuck in a heavenly dream after death and it's up to you to wake up from it and live on as a disembodied spirit who sustains itself on the souls of the living instead of dissipating into nothing. I've never died before so I don't know if that's true or not.
>What kind of beings are they, like I've always kinda wondered if anyone took a picture of one or something, can they appear in physical form? Or how?
I've only ever worked with shadow people. It appeared in physical form to me once. It looked like a black mass of tentacles with a wicked grin. I didn't have a camera on me at the time. It was in a dark room so a camera wouldn't be able to pick it up anyway. Bright flashes of light would be painfully rude and I respect the entity too much for that. It can open doors and push stuff off of shelves but idk how it does that. It likes heavy metal music a lot.
Hhahah, that sounds fun. What if you asked "can I take a picture of you?" or something like that..? And I've heard that when you die, you have some time to decide whether you will accept that you've died and go into the light at the end of the tunnel, so when it closes and you haven't come to terms with dying, it won't ever open for you again.
The tunnel thing is a common description but lately (since quite a while now) various people suspect it's connected to the gnosticism's theory of the God as we know it not being the true ultimate God, but a powerful entity that simply uses its lessers - not maliciously, but like a rancher gathering and using his cattle - and living off us and what we generate through our own cycle of death and rebirth. Some anons discuss related stuff there:
So like soul farming. Gotcha. Thats also that guy that made the gateway tapes says that there are "Loosh" beings who soul farm, otherwise he'd only been inside the Indian spirit realm.
>I read that your ghost gets stuck in a heavenly dream after death and it's up to you to wake up from it and live on as a disembodied spirit who sustains itself
I assume you or the person who wrote what you read refers to something not unlike what Alawite anon before spoke on. IIRC one could connect to more than just souls of others, but some things are trickier than the others.
You're pretty much correct about everything except groups. Only morons try to brute force rituals with group activity; one advanced practitioner is worth more than a thousand chanting neophytes.
However, the rest is mostly correct. Psi is a force that is able to manipulate probabilities and random chance, and the only proven experiments with it have been largely microscopic. An untrained human can manipulate about 1 in 10000 bits in random number generators. Due to how energy potentials scale exponentially, it's actually easier to jiggle a quadrillion or more particles just a little bit than it is to make a single particle float on a macro scale.
https://www.amazon.com/Entangled-Minds-Extrasensory-Experiences-Quantum/dp/1416516778
This book has tons of examples on psi experiments.
If you want to talk about magic(k) you gotta talk about where the real power comes from.
Very cool music, why Rainbow? Also, what's up with Jenny there?
bump, cool informative thread yall come join the discussion!
Did the western occult have meditation stuff like "Guarding the One" aka navel gazing? Orthodox have it but I wonder if other people had it too.
You're asking about the trinity: Mind Body Spirit complex. The mystery of the black hole sun. I'll focus on the relation ship of the high chakras. The brain represents one's "crown," the two pillars of which must unite; logic and creativity; feminine and masculine; the heavens and the earth. This allows your mind a biological framework to comprehend the universe as well as deeply integrate your pineal gland (third eye) which sits at the base of the brain in-between the two hemispheres. A well wired pineal gland will contain more "insight" aka photoreceptors and calcite (soul star). Higher calcite content = higher piezoelectric potential = more photons produced = higher energy concentration in a confined space = virtual black hole...now black holes have a curious relationship with information and...hang on? What are those photoreceptors watching anyway? And doesn't the pineal gland control dreaming and dmt? What could be on the other side of the advent horizon?
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