What is spiritual implications of people who can't visualize or not very well

What is spiritual implications of people who can't visualize or not very well

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What about in adverse? What if I can not only visualize your apple but mine too?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What if i can imagine every type of apple like whats the limit is that useful

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You end up thinking about a blue apple. Then you wonder if the apple can somehow become 2 or 3 or even 4 other colors simultaneously. What is the benefit of the layers of color? Is that crafty? Can you peel an apple like an Onion?

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Let's think critically about this. How do people with aphantasia form memories? Is it all word scaffolding or do they use other mnemonic tricks? Let's ignore any spiritual things. Let's go concrete and see if there's any quality of life differences. Are these people more impulsive? Do they have health more health problems? I know this is almost certainly a bot thread, but we can actually start to understand things more with just basic polling. From there we can build theory and then test.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      People with aphantasia are NPCs, which comprise the vast majority of the population. Before you say, "but the vast majority of the population doesn't have aphantasia", might I remind you that to be an NPC is to be, in effect, a robot; and a robot carries out a code, a series of instructions. A robot can be programmed to tell you that it is not a robot.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I guess they've got the other things. Words, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations, feelings, abstract concepts. I wish one would answer this though. I do remind reading about one guy who had to have a picture of his wife in his wallet because otherwise he had no way to recall what she looked like.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Something I don't get about aphantasia is this.
      What if I asked them, "What side of your room is your bed on?"
      If I heard this, I have a mental image of looking into my room from the door and can tell you that my bed is on the right. Can a person with aphantasia just not answer the question? Or do they have to imagine the layout of their room in a tactile rather than visual way?

      I don't believe aphantasiacs are 'NPCs,' though, any more than dyslexics or people with that disorder where they can't recognize their emotions are. It's just another mental abnormality.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        i have aphantasia and id say the best way to describe it for someone who doesn’t is the computers on but the screen is off. i can imagine touch, sounds and full songs but no visuals

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          can you dream?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            yes i dream but it’s kinda hazy and static like a bad signal on a tv, some nights its much clearer but other nights it barely visible or i don’t have a dream at all

            How do you remember things? My memories are so tied to visual recall. Hard question, sorry

            it’s hard to explain but its like an instant you know or it takes a little if it’s been awhile. kinda like how some animals have instinctual knowledge ingrained into their dna to do certain things.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            also neat thing about is i will learn visually and physically faster then if you give me a book to learn something. almost as if my brain compensates for the lack of visual imagination by making my body remember it as awell as the parts of my brain for sound, touch amd smell

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            How would you rate your recall? I have shit memory.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            on average i can recall stuff alright but if my adhd is bad i’ll forget im cooking something or i alread had something open. but all in all id say its not that bad like a 8/10

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          How do you remember things? My memories are so tied to visual recall. Hard question, sorry

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I still say that image doesn't really highlight the point.

    I say that for 2 reasons:
    1) I have had mental visions (either through DMT or lucid dreaming) that are EXTREMELY "real", literally like seeing with my eyes, but my eyes are closed
    So I must conclude that such an experience would correspond to #1 in your image.

    2) At any time I can conjure up a mental image of an apple that has as much detail as #1, but is nowhere near as "real" as I described above.
    So based on detail I would say it's #1, but it can't be #1 because I know much more vivid visions are still possible.

    Conclusion: The pic in the OP is inadequate to distinguish between different levels of realness in the imagination.

    I could easily see someone who's never had intensely real mental visions claiming that their imagination is like #1 simply because it's highly detailed. Whereas someone who's done DMT might have the exact same level of imagination but will claim it's #2 or #3 because they know it's nowhere near the DMT experience, and therefore can't be the highest value on the scale.
    Sometimes I even wonder if everyone's imagination is the same, and the only reason people give different answers to the OP's pic is because they interpret the question differently.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If I asked you to visualize an elephant, what level of detail could you conjure?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's quiet hard

        I tried visualizing me riding an elephant but it seems like you have to keep a stable image in your brain so you need good photographic memory

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Not necessarily.
          Ever seen the people who still play Counter Strike 1.6?
          They have modern PC's, but they run things on the lowest settings possible to get the highest possible frames per second because if the frames appear on your screen even a femtosecond after the opponent, you lose.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Just of the top of your head, 1 being so real and 9 being a line drawing and 10 being nothing, give me a number of how real it is to you

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >how real it is to you
            But that was exactly my point here

            I still say that image doesn't really highlight the point.

            I say that for 2 reasons:
            1) I have had mental visions (either through DMT or lucid dreaming) that are EXTREMELY "real", literally like seeing with my eyes, but my eyes are closed
            So I must conclude that such an experience would correspond to #1 in your image.

            2) At any time I can conjure up a mental image of an apple that has as much detail as #1, but is nowhere near as "real" as I described above.
            So based on detail I would say it's #1, but it can't be #1 because I know much more vivid visions are still possible.

            Conclusion: The pic in the OP is inadequate to distinguish between different levels of realness in the imagination.

            I could easily see someone who's never had intensely real mental visions claiming that their imagination is like #1 simply because it's highly detailed. Whereas someone who's done DMT might have the exact same level of imagination but will claim it's #2 or #3 because they know it's nowhere near the DMT experience, and therefore can't be the highest value on the scale.
            Sometimes I even wonder if everyone's imagination is the same, and the only reason people give different answers to the OP's pic is because they interpret the question differently.

            people may interpret what you mean differently.

            My mental image of an elephant right now honestly feels like it has the same level of detail as looking at a photograph.
            But I still know I'm not looking at a photograph, the image isn't as "vivid". I don't know how else to explain it.
            It's "detailed", but not "vivid".

            So, we have information. This is good. So it's recognizable as an elephant...but it's not right. So somewhere around 3-4 I'm guessing. Can you confirm that? Sorry to hound you man.

            >So somewhere around 3-4 I'm guessing.
            No.
            I'm guessing, that you're just totally ignoring the point I made in my first post

            I still say that image doesn't really highlight the point.

            I say that for 2 reasons:
            1) I have had mental visions (either through DMT or lucid dreaming) that are EXTREMELY "real", literally like seeing with my eyes, but my eyes are closed
            So I must conclude that such an experience would correspond to #1 in your image.

            2) At any time I can conjure up a mental image of an apple that has as much detail as #1, but is nowhere near as "real" as I described above.
            So based on detail I would say it's #1, but it can't be #1 because I know much more vivid visions are still possible.

            Conclusion: The pic in the OP is inadequate to distinguish between different levels of realness in the imagination.

            I could easily see someone who's never had intensely real mental visions claiming that their imagination is like #1 simply because it's highly detailed. Whereas someone who's done DMT might have the exact same level of imagination but will claim it's #2 or #3 because they know it's nowhere near the DMT experience, and therefore can't be the highest value on the scale.
            Sometimes I even wonder if everyone's imagination is the same, and the only reason people give different answers to the OP's pic is because they interpret the question differently.

            and trying to put a number on it to be a dick, because my entire fricking point is that you can't put a number on this.

            Have you ever done psychedelics anon? Have you ever done DMT?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No psychedelics for me, not now not ever. I'm not trying to be a dick, as for that that's just my face. I'm trying to get a baseline for how real we can perceive a visualization, as you seemed exceptionally good at visualization. Truly if I offended you, that was not my intention, and I do apologize. I just come off as a c**t naturally. I'm trying to get numbers objectively. From that we can get a clearer understanding of our perceptions. I'd like to turn this board into finding, collecting and interpreting data. But that's a big dream.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            But if you want numbers then the point I was making is you're going to need at least a 2D space of numbers.
            Not a 1D line of numbers.

            The OP pic is unclear whether decreasing numbers means decreasing detail or decreasing vividness.
            So why not create a 2D scale that has detail on the x-axis and "vividness" on the y-axis or something? I still don't know if that would be a perfect scale but it would be a huge improvement over the linear scale in the OP pic.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'd argue we don't need that yet. Maybe later, but my whole goal is to straw poll now, and get basic information. If I were to ask you to visualize an elephant on a 10 point scale, 1 being perfectly real and 10 being nothing, can you give me a number?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'll only give you what I've been saying all along, a high value maybe 9/10 on the scale of "detail". NOT on the scale of "realness". But you keep asking me for "realness", and I feel what you're asking for is absolutely a different question from what's represented in the OP's pic.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            How close an image is to reality is how I'm defining realness. I'm not intentionally being abstruse, it's just a hard concept to pin down. I just think the two ideas are linked, vividness and detail with realness. One more question, you have the detail on the elephant, but it doesn't match it's realness. Could you identify why that's not matching up? Any single thing? Or is it a feeling?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Could you identify why that's not matching up? Any single thing? Or is it a feeling?
            I don't know anon, it's just less real in some way.

            Can you imagine music? In a sense I can imagine music playing in my head and I can hear all the notes, but it's still just different, or less real, in some way than actually hearing music.
            It's not that it's less detailed, or that the sound "isn't as loud", none of that adequately explains what the difference is.
            I can only say that it's just somehow "less real" in a way I can't put into words.

            It's the same with imaginary images. I can even imagine the color, but the color itself is just somehow not the same as real color. I wouldn't say it's less colorful, it's the same amount of color... It's just not the same.
            But if you do DMT for example, then it is the same. It's very strange.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Thanks Anon for dealing with my questions. The music one got me because I started thinking of a song in my head. Pitch and rhythm are there, but it's missing something I can't put a finger on, like it's some bootleg copy of a copy of a copy, where the bits that give it dimension are not there. I need to think about this. Thanks again

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Quite a lot actually. I can see its beady black eyes, and all the wrinkles all over its body, with the little hairs ticking up.

        I get quite a complete picture of an elephant. But it's still not as "vivid" as seeing a real elephant.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          So, we have information. This is good. So it's recognizable as an elephant...but it's not right. So somewhere around 3-4 I'm guessing. Can you confirm that? Sorry to hound you man.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            OP's pic literally shows the apple losing detail.
            How can you be at 3 or 4 if you have all the detail?

            You're actually just making his point, because you're telling someone who can imagine perfect detail that they're at 3-4? Then that means you agree with him that the OP's pic is an inadequate scale.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Weak ability in the astral but at the same time maybe they're protected from it.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    We all have the capability to develop these skills, but through a combination of genetic and environmental factors spend more or less time doing so.

    Yes, being good at visualizing makes some jobs easier and it means you can create whatever entertainment you want in your head, but it's also extremely draining physiologically (like sprinting) and so there are practical limits to it. If you do have aphantasia, I would strongly recommend you at least try to develop the skill because I frankly don't know how I would live without it and that epiphany of finally discovering it if I were in your shoes would be guaranteed to feel amazing and so I strongly wish for you to experience it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      How do u practice

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        By being bored as frick as a kid is how I developed it.
        This is what an RPG looked like when I was a kid:

        A lot was left to the imagination in general. You'd fill in the blanks. Prior generations had a similar deal where they'd all watch the black & white TV and then argue about what colour they IMAGINED the sweater of such and such character was wearing on last night's episode (even though it was all just shades of gray).

        Do any of you remember imagining a guy running next to the car on long trips?

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Are people able to dream with aphantasia?

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I can do this with eyes open and while talking. I have also heard that some people dont dream in colour

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >quran 22:46
    >So have they not traveled through the earth and have hearts by which to reason and ears by which to hear? For indeed, it is not eyes that are blinded, but blinded are the hearts which are within the breasts.

  9. 1 month ago
    nonutter

    they're not humans

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Can you see me

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