Religious people, if you somehow discovered with 100% certainty that there was no god, afterlife, reincarnation, etc.

Religious people, if you somehow discovered with 100% certainty that there was no god, afterlife, reincarnation, etc. would you still want people to believe in your religion?

You often hear e.g. Christians saying that Christianity is good for society [compared to atheism] and I was wondering if that holds true even if the beliefs are not true?

“There is no God, but don't tell that to my servant, lest he murder me at night”

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  1. 3 weeks ago

    That's fascinating. I believe in the truth and pursuing it, but if nothing supernatural exists then people would have to rebuild from new foundations. It would be painful, perhaps fatal, but possibly worth it. A noble lie can only last for so long.

  2. 3 weeks ago

    without God, there would be no ethics or morality. but i do not mean this in a religious way.

    God has an ordering power over chaos.
    there are only 2 things, which actually exist:

    chaos is the infinite sea of all potentials, but no concretes.
    ordering is the restriction of that chaotic mess, into cohesion and concretes.

    forget human ethics or morality, without God, there would be no existence, no known structure or "thing" would exist.

    second: if the whole world became atheist, there would still be ethics and morality.
    because God is not religious and its effect bypasses those concepts. there is a direct connection between you and God.
    and everything one could dare to call good, even the smallest thing, is of God.
    imagine a sun with the light its emitting.
    The Good is when the sun shines unimpeded.
    The bad is, when there are clouds blocking that.
    but light - all form of light, come from the Sun.

    thus, there is no good, except God.
    whenever you do something that could in any way shape or form be called "good", regardless of what religion or culture you belong to, its of God.
    whether you are aware of it, is irrelevant as well.

    so yes, even without religion, there can and will be good - probably even more!

    PS: there are religions which do not urge you to spread the message. dont take the abrahamically flavoured ones as the end all be all to "religion". go get aquainted with the wiser older brothers and sisters of him, look into the upanishads, advaita vedanta, kashmir shaivism, mahayana buddhism, etc.

    • 3 weeks ago

      then why do I see so many murderers on /gif/ wearing cross necklaces

      • 3 weeks ago

        Latin American version of clearing your browser history.

    • 3 weeks ago

      Chaos does not exist. There is order, always, in all things. What you see as chaos is in fact only a single anecdote in a pattern so vast that it encompasses the whole observable universe.

      I have no objection to the rest of your post.

      • 3 weeks ago

        >yes and no
        >Lotta different orders
        >kinda create an uncontrollable thing
        >so like...
        >yes I'm sure "certain gods" think they are the only ones doing order right
        >and yes in any interaction order is found
        >but it's not like the fractal knows it's unfolding
        >just parts

        • 3 weeks ago

          At a certain complexity, the fractal may indeed be complex enough to understand itself, and "order" doesn't by any means imply that anything is controllable. We are not only witnessing the results of the order. The only reason we can find that life even exists on our planet, is that 4.5 Billion years ago, a moon-sized object made of pure ice collided with our molten rock of a primordial planet, adding the basic requirement for life as we, and every other living organism on this rock: water.

          The trajectory of that ice ball was determined by another collision or explosion somewhere on space, perhaps another billion before that. Imagine what events could possibly have sent that ball of ice to our planet, and not any of the other planets in our system.

          Somewhere, in some place that ceased to exist 10b years before the first fish had grown legs here on our planet, some unfathomably important event took places that set up the chain reaction that caused everything that has ever happened here on earth.

          And eventually, we humans have been able to comprehend recently, as technology has improved, that the same events that caused the conditions which give us life and self awareness are also inevitably going to result in our planet's destruction in the fiery embrace of our sun's supernova.

          Everything that unfolds today can be traced back to that one particular happenstance. That is order. When we call it chaos, it is only because we cannot ourselves see or comprehend the pattern. But we are beginning to understand, as human knowledge becomes more centralized and broadly distributed. Humanity is fast becoming a hivemind: a fractal comprehending itself.

  3. 3 weeks ago

    it was never about belief.
    belief is something diseased blind atheists invented.
    those of us that see, see.

  4. 3 weeks ago

    >would you still want people to believe in your religion?
    All but a few commandments of Christianity have reasoning that can live independently of the Holy Bible
    The commandments aren't just "How to get into heaven," they're "how to live in freedom"
    Have one God and worship no idol, don't use God to vainly justify yourself, honor your parents, make a day of the week to rest.

  5. 3 weeks ago

    To made someone free you need firstly to show him how he's not first and how it's beautiful outside. But is it a scam? No, because this the only way to activate something that is beyond our understanding.

  6. 3 weeks ago

    Literally in the Gita, second chapter.
    >26: If, however, you think that the soul [or the symptoms of life] will always be born and die forever, you still have no reason to lament, O mighty-armed.
    >27: One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament.
    >28: All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?
    Note, "sure to take birth again" is not in this context suggesting an eternal soul, but simply pointing out that conscious ess arose once, and will do so again.
    The main point being a meaningless universe has no reason to NOT follow dharma.

  7. 3 weeks ago

    its a nonsensical question because its an impossibility. it would be like asking "if we lived in a world where we didnt need water to survive, would you still want people to drink water?". There is no world without God so I wouldnt be able to want anyone to do anything

  8. 3 weeks ago

    >choas doesn't exist.
    but i do though lol and so does eris. hahaha.

  9. 3 weeks ago

    but god is real. the event happening now are not a accident. these people didn't think up these issues we had today.
    i don't believe you and i been to heaven every night when i sleep its clear you NPC's are up to something.

    can you not dream and lucid ndream your way into heaven?
    too low viberations, aww poor you.
    time to learn astral projections fed boy.

  10. 3 weeks ago

    I don't believe in anything. I know it. I was freed from my state of mind, but now that I'm awake, you ask me to imagine a deep sleep.

  11. 3 weeks ago

    Speaking as a (usually) non-religious person, yes. I'd rather people believe in religion. It promotes unity and compassion, keeps many in line, and provides profound comfort to the multitude against the inevitable suffering of life, as well as a foundational rock that helps mitigate social progress running amuck more quickly than people can adapt to it.

    Granted, I kinda wish it was a religion more concerned with the long term consequences, outside ones immediate family, after you leave this Earth, that dominated the western world. But religion did provide enough motivation for multiple generations to work on building those Cathedrals, despite some of them knowing they'd never see the end result. So there's hope yet for the world.

  12. 3 weeks ago

    Truth is priority 1 for me. I believe in divinity, and I believe in demonic forces. CERN and the other hadron colliders are clearly some sort of portal to demonic realms. Religion is different than reality though. I look at ancient monuments like the pyramids and understand that there was another civilization before us. When that civilization met disaster, the few elite survivors created all religions throughout the world to reeducate and control the remainder of regular people and keep them under their boots as slaves. Yes, there are positive aspects to the structure created by religion, but we only consider these as "bennefits" because it's all we know. If we weren't governing ourselves with fear of afterlife retribution, we'd be unstoppable. Instead, we merely produce equity for our psychotic owners. Religion is successful and compatible with reality because it acknowledges the divine and the demonic.
    This is all just a theory of mine. I don't know if it's true, and I believe in Christ, but man does organized millenia-old religion seem absurd at times (which leads me to ponder up theories)) such as this).

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