redpill me on meditation

Does mindfulness,zen,trascendental meditation work or is it just placebo?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous
  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    All of that is about learning to be a poweruser of your own brain. Not in a way where you can just make it do whatever you want, but where you can understand what your brain is doing and clearly see what options you have. Almost anyone who puts the time and effort in can find SOME useful setting that microsoft/evolution didn't want them fricking with.

    The downside to this is that you can end up screwing yourself up; people don't start with admin access to their own heads for a reason.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >All of that is about learning to be a poweruser of your own brain
      extra materialistic take
      >Not in a way where you can just make it do whatever you want
      of course you can command it as you want, it's your tool why wouldn't it obey you
      >people don't start with admin access to their own heads for a reason.
      then we couldn't be slaved

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >extra materialistic take
        Replace "brain" with "soul" if such makes more sense to you
        >it's your tool why wouldn't it obey you
        It's more "you" than "your tool." Insofar as it is "YOUR tool" in a nondualistic sense, obedience to YOU tends to look different than obeying you. Meditation helps suss out subtleties like that.
        >then we couldn't be slaved
        It's partially about maintaining enslavement and partially so we don't accidentally kill ourselves (which of course you don't want your slaves doing)

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >"brain" with "soul"
          we just went from an organ to infinity
          >It's more "you" than "your tool."
          you are not the mind
          >so we don't accidentally kill ourselves
          we might because of the mind identification. it is extremely painful identify as a mind

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            i don't have time for this mickey mouse bullshit

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            So is meditation placebo or legit

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's a scam. Since you're asking, it means you aren't yet indoctrinated into the psyop/cult.
            It's not a placebo in the sense that you can do it. It's therefore legit. You sit until you see a visual effect like in

            [...]

            and other than that, it's a big McNothing McWasteOfTime edition.
            There's a lot of misdirection and weird wording in everything they say to hide that it's a waste of time and the result is not even good for the mind ("kills the self", "benefit is not the goal", etc. see for example 37645334, "don't go to that or this place actually" in

            If done correctly, you will have true rest and peace, an actual comfortable settling of the mind. There are many techniques from different religions that have meditation as a core practice, all suited to different individuals. Depending on the technique, you'll eventually experience different visualizations, or odd bodily sensations as well. Try not to grasp them too much.
            I'm a Buddhist myself, so the biggest benefit for me is an extreme sense of mental clarity. My thoughts slow during and after, considerably, but are sharper in a way, its like my ability to reason my way through things increases significantly, my internal reactivity to positive or negative things dulls quite a lot, and I'm just more equanimous.
            There is enough science now, that its quite obvious it isn't just placebo. These techniques work, but should be utilized with guided instructions from monastics or qualified teachers, preferably not McMindfulness meditation people on YT or generic meditation centers.

            Also for the love of god, don't just go do a Goenka retreat, those things are absolutely brutal, not at all for beginners, and the big ones in the US are run by an ultra sectarian for profit weirdo.

            tldr; that means "tbh this place is shit").
            They sometimes realize there's not any benefit in that. Which causes them to say, as a misdirection, that wanting a benefit is bad. In fact, benefits are bad. Good is bad, bad is good.
            This is done in subtle ways and there's a lot of subterfuge in the dialogue which is what makes the psyop. For example,
            >bringing out research when convenient, even fake research, while having stated its no benefitness a moment ago, and at the same time complaining about secularity/mindfulness institutions that do research
            What constitutes being healthy is vague, research is new and anyone part of a cult will say the cult is good in the paper.
            It doesn't even matter. Any fricking thing you do has a health benefit. Walking has health benefits.
            >pointing out you need to go to scam places while also pointing to quotes where Buddha says "you can do it anywhere, etc."
            tldr; That's the scam. They tell you there's value in this doing nothingness. That causes them to waste time doing nothingness. At one point, you may be led to believe you have to do it harder and you have to join some dumb retreat. Or not. This still leads them to believe they have to keep doing it and there's value in it, that causes them to say those vague things (despite, again, there being no benefit at all, or very minor and not worth wasting that much time) and get more converts. Scientology-lite.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            There is value in "nothingness/doing nothing" and that value is seeing life as it is and without filters which use terms as "value".

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I think we agree on most of the object-level points. The confusion seems to be coming from trying to discuss enlightened facts in a way that makes sense to someone not familiar with them. If a limited mind makes the decision to meditate, it is probably to fulfill some limited goal. As far as that goes, a limited mind will be unable to use itself freely as a tool. The self can use it, but of course the limited mind will find that what it thought was the self was not the self. "The self can use the mind freely" is a misleading thing to say to someone not familiar with the self's true nature.

            So is meditation placebo or legit

            It's legit. Not a magic cure-all, but it does its job.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Not a magic cure-all
            Meditation is when it leads to self realization.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            For certain definitions of "cure" and "all." And a lot of people won't get that far.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What is the true nature of the self according to you?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I can't claim to understand it perfectly but the thing I do know is that it violates our intuition. "one self per person" is just a convenient way to think about things but it breaks apart in two directions: Going inward, an individual human's mind is actually composed of many different parts working on different things with different goals. Going outward, there is no way to logically delineate where one person ends and another begins. "I'm in this body, they're in another, therefore we have different selves" works well enough day to day, but it doesn't stand up to close scrutiny either spiritually or scientifically.

            My current best guess is that there is a single self that all things share, but there are various interpretations with similar implications.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I can't claim to understand it
            Not even the enlightened understand it, confusion and open questions will end but the true nature of self will remain mysterious. The best pointers seem to be being beingness, I am that I am.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            The fact that I exist is what I am. I am is what I am.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            > extremely painful
            4u

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    How.much should you mediatet a day for ego death

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      how long is a piece of string?

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If done correctly, you will have true rest and peace, an actual comfortable settling of the mind. There are many techniques from different religions that have meditation as a core practice, all suited to different individuals. Depending on the technique, you'll eventually experience different visualizations, or odd bodily sensations as well. Try not to grasp them too much.
    I'm a Buddhist myself, so the biggest benefit for me is an extreme sense of mental clarity. My thoughts slow during and after, considerably, but are sharper in a way, its like my ability to reason my way through things increases significantly, my internal reactivity to positive or negative things dulls quite a lot, and I'm just more equanimous.
    There is enough science now, that its quite obvious it isn't just placebo. These techniques work, but should be utilized with guided instructions from monastics or qualified teachers, preferably not McMindfulness meditation people on YT or generic meditation centers.

    Also for the love of god, don't just go do a Goenka retreat, those things are absolutely brutal, not at all for beginners, and the big ones in the US are run by an ultra sectarian for profit weirdo.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      How can you be sure an instructor's legit, and how can you receive instruction from a temple
      can you just walk in and say "hey broski can you teach me to meditate"

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        The best instructions are on youtube. There are no secret methods and those in the know wish to share.
        After receiving happiness it feels good to share it.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          I was asking that one poster
          I dont want to find a McMindfulness guy to tell me to "center myself" as if that means anything

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >After receiving happiness it feels good to share it.
          So, exactly as I said:

          >Does mindfulness,zen,trascendental meditation work or is it just placebo?
          What do you specifically mean by "work" (what is the goal you are thinking about)?

          If you have subjective goals, basically everything you do in life will work because you'll always rationalize it as "working in some way".

          I think meditation "works" for most people because they don't have clear and objective goals for meditation to begin with. It's always some subjective stuff like "be at peace" or "feel one with the universe", etc.

          >If you have subjective goals, basically everything you do in life will work because you'll always rationalize it as "working in some way".
          >I think meditation "works" for most people because they don't have clear and objective goals for meditation to begin with. It's always some subjective stuff like "be at peace" or "feel one with the universe", etc.

          Happiness is just another subjective thing, and if our aim is merely happiness, you can find it doing anything, and you'll convince yourself that "meditation worked" when you could have found happiness learning how to play an instrument or learning how to paint.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >if our aim is merely happiness, you can find it doing anything
            Merely happiness? Everything we do is for happiness, including doing the laundry, yelling to defend yourself and cucking for money, we might be wrong about what brings happiness but that is the goal.
            Nothing is harder to achieve than happiness, the external world can't offer lasting happiness. Meditation is the best aid towards causeless joy, it turns out that we don't need a reason to be happy.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Everything we do is for happiness
            No, everything we do is for physical satisfaction. Happiness is something extremely subjective.

            For example, we all have sex and experience sexual pleasure, but someone can feel "happiness" while doing something that hurts them and that in some cases is to their detriment and to the betterment of others, and some of us would not feel happy doing the same thing (that's why it's subjective). But we all feel physical satisfaction from sex.

            >the external world can't offer lasting happiness
            That's because happiness is more of an illusory ideal rather than a tangible goal.

            >Nothing is harder to achieve than happiness
            No, nothing is harder to maintain than happiness, achieving it is easy, because people can be happy doing almost anything, it just depends on the person and their standards.

            >Meditation is the best aid towards causeless joy
            I think you are associating the pleasurable brain tingles and sense of calm people get while meditating and calling that "happiness", which gain proves how subjective it is. You might actually be thinking about physical satisfaction while calling it "happiness".

            Now that's enough EerieWeb for the day. Think about it, happiness is so subjective so it's both easy to attain but hard to retain (since our desires and standards change over time).

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Try to see what is pointed out rather than getting all semantic. If it's so subjective and we should consider what others think then not much point to talk.
            >That's because happiness is more of an illusory ideal rather than a tangible goal.
            Everlasting causeless joy can be found, it means the end of suffering. Oddly enough it often needs hiding, very triggering for normies to see bliss.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            the only end of suffering is dying norvana is cope

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Everlasting causeless joy can be found
            1. Maybe only after you die.

            2. If you have to meditate to induce that happiness, then meditation is by definition the cause. It's just someone manipulating their brain into inducing mental states for a desired effect. It is by definition something you cause to happen.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Joy is already in you but the ego-mind blocks you from feeling it, meditation helps with sorting the mental crap away.
            Apart from meditation we can spontaneously drop traumas stored by the mind revealing the underlying joy, it can't be triggered on will so the best we can do is make room for it with meditation, but you can also try almost dying and crumbling under great suffering.

  5. 2 months ago
    Inversion

    It's about realization, about perception. How do you see yourself in the moment present, how do you see your local environment. You manifesting reality based on your level of realization, your level of consciousness.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    it's about learning to control your mind and through that you may learn something more...

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    For me meditation is just being, like, just being the aware observer who sits in a neutral position and non-judgmentally watches everything.

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Every religion that uses meditation both Eastern like Buddhism, Hinduism, and Western like the Jesus Prayer of the Eastern Orthodox actually have very specific goals in mind. They also exist in relationship to practices in ethics, rituals etc. They might make you feel better and produce benefit but that is not necessarily the goal. These meditations are not the same as secular mindfulness stuff which those traditions also often do only as a type of preliminary.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >secular mindfulness stuff which those traditions also often do only as a type of preliminary.

      Yes but isn't that "basic mindfulness" aka the act of just being aware the basis of what meditation is? People on here used to say that meditation is the "Deliberate focus of unconditional awareness" and that everything beyond that is just constructs based on that.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not necessarily. Some types of meditations are actually meant to shed off awareness. For example, Silent Illumination in Chan Buddhism is meant to shed off awareness towards spontaneous action. It is a difficult meditation done with teachers because one cannot to take the silence, stillness, or even clarity, as an object of meditation. It is usually practiced by monastics. Prayers of the Heart in Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Contexts likewise are supposed to be a type of pure feeling of love without awareness, a pure place holder of love another.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Authentic meditation, like virtue, is its own reward. If you understand the authentic gist behind the teachings you’re bringing up (the parts of them that are genuinely valuable, enlightening, and applicable), you would see how silly this question is. These are AUTOTELIC — having their end (telos) within themselves. It’s like the Stoic ideal of enlightenment (which they called ataraxia) — you use your mind to evaluate the teachings, such as the teachings of Stoicism, and, if you’re in authentic resonance with this form of thought, you see how following it is its own reward. For instance, in the case of Stoicism, it’s because Stoic thought can help you develop practical virtues immediately applicable in your day-to-day life, while also offering a remedy to the suffering and distress we inevitably face in life, by pushing us to take a higher, more tranquil, more equanimous, more ‘enlightened’ view on it all.

    Even in the West, all the way back from Heraclitus and Socrates to Heidegger today, we have had the same fundamental insight that the “self” — the fundamental unique center of one’s own individual being, which is also the gateway through which we interact with Being or Reality at large, necessarily so — is what should be examined, inquired into, or even transformed, disciplined, or even awakened in some way (awakening oneself to genuine ontological inquiry, for instance, per Heidegger; seeking self-knowledge and to live an “examined life”, as in the thought of Heraclitus and Socrates).

    “I searched myself.”
    (Heraclitus)

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Every breath and heartbeat has cosmic importance, the Om creates a resonance that transmits cosmic energy, in other realms the energies are experienced directly so there is no doubt about its effects, but here it may appear to be a waste of time. And if you do it for ten years straight you can teleport out of here but it's a real pain in the ass.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      How should one meditate?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        there are as many ways as there are people, but here are some good starting points

        sit with your back straight
        breathe normally, don't try to affect anything
        pay attention to the physical sensation of breathing -- some people choose to focus on the sensation of the breath entering the nose, some focus on the rising and falling of the chest. it doesn't matter, but pick something and focus your attention on it.
        your mind will wander, bring your attention back to the breath.
        don't blame yourself for being 'bad' at keeping your attention
        observe that by directing your attention, you are observing your attention.
        now go through life consciously paying attention, rather than becoming distracted by thoughts, memories, daydreams, etc...
        that's not to say you cannot do these things, but pay attention to what is happening.
        attention is the only virtue

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >still only offers one form of meditation as the and all, be all
          Buddhists have RUINED the very concept of meditation.
          Everyone on /x/ would learn better from a boxer than a Buddhist.
          >“The only peak experiences I have realized have come as a result of athletics.” - Joseph Campbell

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Elaborate more on what you're saying.
            Isn't attention the basis of existence?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        also it is okay to smile

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Videos on Meditation and being present:

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Freedom is letting go and letting go is happiness.

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Meditation is a way of noticing the gaps between thoughts. When you do, you start noticing that everything is made of love

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If you do it for the right intentions like to pray for the wellbeing of the world and all other sentient beings, then it's worth it.
    One hardship for me is the avoidance I've developed, so it's not for everyone

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Does mindfulness,zen,trascendental meditation work or is it just placebo?
    What do you specifically mean by "work" (what is the goal you are thinking about)?

    If you have subjective goals, basically everything you do in life will work because you'll always rationalize it as "working in some way".

    I think meditation "works" for most people because they don't have clear and objective goals for meditation to begin with. It's always some subjective stuff like "be at peace" or "feel one with the universe", etc.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Tfw have tinnitus
    Its over. I'll never be able to meditate properly.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What you hear doesn't matter at all. Meditation can cure tinnitus you can read about this, for me it first gave it for couple months and then removed it.

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