Real Astral Projection

Question for initiated anons, if they'd be so kind as to at least answer around the question:

Does one gain any extra abilities of perception upon true initiation? Is astral projection able to be performed at-will by adepts? What changes actually occur? Or is it just some bs ceremony where you do some ritual and say some magic words to "alter your consciousness" in a more "subtle" way?

Thanks for any answers.

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Does one gain any extra abilities of perception upon true initiation?
    It's like asking if I get a new app everytime I charge my phone. It's just a weird question man.

    Honestly - if you're still caught up in the world of ranks and who knows what and when etc. Your mind state is far to rigid still before trying to go to the depths of astral projection. If it means anything, it was the pursuit for the theoretical and philosophical over the magical which paradoxically enabled me to understand the magical more. Your living in the mindset of the magicians who created those grades, and the mindset of the times they lived in. Magic has stepped out of the ceremonial days and the aesthetics we associate with wizards and occultism.

    It's been modernized like Yoghurt and Yoga.

    Seriously, just study Bhakti Yoga or a form of yoga that focuses mostly on spiritual pursuits and siddhis - you'll progress faster and better.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    OK, there are various traditions where astral projection plausibly is a big part of the initiation and spiritual training of that tradition.

    One is the shamanic teachings Carlos Castaneda was initiated into. (Given various names such as Nagual shamanism, or the New Seers of Mexico).

    Another is some forms of Tibetan Buddhism, such as those inspired by/initiated into the Six Yogas of Naropa of the Kagyu sect. This includes the projection of the consciousness outside of the body, preparation for a conscious death, and also overlaps with Tibetan dream yoga. It’s implicit that such direct experiences in the afterlife or subtle realm while still being alive or able to return to the body is the source of the revelations of the Bardo Thodol (of translated The Tibetan Book of the Dead in English, but literally meaning 'Liberation through hearing during the bardo', bardo being equated with subtle afterlife realm but also sometimes literally translated as the ‘intermediate state’).

    There is reputed training in astral projection in perhaps some Masonic mysticism, in early Theosophy, and in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

    A modern more Westernized scientific outlook on and cultivation of it was done by Robert Monroe, not put in terms of being some ‘esoteric school’ one is ‘initiated into’, but a practical form of training in a latent ability all normal humans have.

    Finally (for the extent of my knowledge, but there may be even more), this even shows up in forms of Hindu Yoga and certainly some of Tantric Hinduism, I’m sure.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Actively pursuing it is like two opposite ends of magnets trying to connect. You chase it away because it's like trying to sneak the car out for a joy ride before learning how to drive with someone who is learned.

      Astral magic and projection doesn't lead to final truth and understanding nor peace and contentment, however sincere practice of CERTAIN types of yoga and CERTAIN types of philosophical routes, like they proclaim, lead to liberation, enlightenment and knowledge about the things we're discussing as a by product.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Paramahansa Yogananda, initiated into Kriya Yoga by his gurus and gurus’ gurus like Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri, Lahiri Mahasay, and Mahavatar Babaji, speaks of his immediate guru, Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri, having gained this ability and using it upon his death to send his subtle body to Paramahansa and giving him an inspiring lecture on the subtle bodies and realms of existence, the soul’s journey through them, and the cultivation of the soul one can do to reach the supreme spiritual goal.

      (Besides this — I lied about this being the final example, I guess — there are also accounts of revered Christian and Sufi saints having similar abilities or projecting a similar phenomenon, such as through bilocation, appearing to disciples or companions in a place while their body is also at another location, or projection of their consciousness/subtle body to an alternate location where they gained knowledge of what was going on there; in fact, such clairvoyance or ‘remote viewing’ can practically be said to be an apposite phenomenon as astral projection).

      There are different types of ‘initiation’, putting aside the sometimes shallow universalist/perennialist view for now. The sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church, such as one’s first baptism, confirmation, or communion, are themselves a form of ‘initiation’ into the Roman Catholic Church. There is also fraudulent initiation, of course, where some cult, or sincerely misguided but believing figures, give some shallow form of ‘initiation’ like what you describe (“ Or is it just some bs ceremony where you do some ritual and say some magic words to "alter your consciousness" in a more "subtle" way?”).

      >Does one gain any extra abilities of perception upon true initiation?
      OK, so let’s say you have a real living Guru, or equivalent of a Spiritual Master of an authentic living spiritual tradition. This can indeed happen if they so choose to initiate you and have authentic powers.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Neat post anon

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The clearest example of this is probably in Kundalini Yoga or related/overlapping paths like forms of Tantric Yoga, Siddhayoga, or Kriya Yoga. In their terminology, the Siddha Yogi (Perfected Yogi) can bestow Mahakundalini Shaktipat on the disciple whom they’ve deemed worthy and ready for it.

        Mahakundalini Shaktipat = the transmission of Supreme Spiritual Power (Maha = Great, Supreme, Kundalini Shakti = such spiritual energy held to be working in the body as a manifestation of God or the potential for God-Consciousness or Enlightenment). Also sometimes just called Shaktipat.

        In such an initiation from the true Siddha Yogi or their equivalent, immediate and powerful spiritual experiences can be bestowed, but this can often be temporary, sort of like a “gift” on loan from the Siddha Yogi’s greater spiritual development, or something like an angel investor giving you a big loan of spiritual power to “start up your own business” (develop on your own spiritual journey). You can see the different theoretical levels of Shaktipat in Kashmir Shaivism, a wise and very developed tradition, on this Wikipedia page, if you like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaktipata

        Certain Sufis also have a similar tradition and form of initiation, where Kundalini or Shakti seems to be referred to as Baraka (Arabic for “blessings”) or Kaif (a form of spiritual energy held to reside around saints, prophets, possibly even locations they’ve dwelled in, tombs, or artifacts of theirs). There are accounts of developed Sufis automatically inducing spiritual experiences in the worthy novice.

        > Is astral projection able to be performed at-will by adepts?
        By some of them, but not every spiritual tradition necessarily stresses it the most or develops such a state/ability the most.

        >What changes actually occur?
        If it’s what you could call a “real initiation”, it’s unmistakable.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >If it’s what you could call a “real initiation”, it’s unmistakable.

          I'm not that anon you're replying to - but say for a beginners sake, what would be the signs and how could I tell apart a "real initiation" from a fake one? What's it uh, feel like?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm the OP so I don't actually know, but from what I've learned it would be something like a brief psychedelic trip, so unmistakable in that sense because it would be such a departure from regular consciousness.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It is like the spiritual energy of God entering into and suffusing you on all levels (of the physical, subtle, and causal bodies). Kundalini Shakti goes up in your body (or bodies), and this can be associated with all manner of siddhis (psychic abilities) or corresponding altered states-of-consciousness.

          One form of this initiation can be as simple as a developed Kundalini Yogi, Kriya Yogi, Siddha Yogi, or even Yogini (female), or otherwise Guru giving you something called by them Prasad. The exoteric religious sense of Prasad is a gift (often consecrated food) offered to a saint, deity, yogi, or temple. The other sense of it is the Guru himself or herself charging a food (often some small fruit, perhaps a date, fig, or a sweet) with their own Kundalini Shakti then giving it you to eat, and Shaktipat is transmitted directly through the fruit; ridiculous or primitive as this may sound to you. There are even accounts of people receiving Shaktipat, or such real initiation, through something as simple as seeing a photograph of the Guru or reading or hearing words of theirs with sincere faith. They can also give you a mantra, or you can be initiated into a mantra somehow, and repeating it (either aloud or silently with the breath) can also initiate you and be a form of Shaktipat.

          Anyway, in all this, experience is probably a better teacher than more words and scholarship about it, which words and scholarship and study can even become an impediment eventually, by filling you with too many preconceptions and expectations of what the spiritual path will be like and what you hope to gain from all this.

          >If it’s what you could call a “real initiation”, it’s unmistakable.

          I'm not that anon you're replying to - but say for a beginners sake, what would be the signs and how could I tell apart a "real initiation" from a fake one? What's it uh, feel like?

          Hope I explained it in this post, if there’s more I can answer I might, but I don’t think I really know how else to put it.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            All those posts you made about Yoga and Siddhis were insightful anon, thank you.

            I'm the OP so I don't actually know, but from what I've learned it would be something like a brief psychedelic trip, so unmistakable in that sense because it would be such a departure from regular consciousness.

            Interesting. Except the duration would be much longer right?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Interesting. Except the duration would be much longer right?

            Again, I'm just guessing but I wouldn't think that it would be very long, as you'd have to return to normal consciousness at some point, I'd think maybe an hour tops, but who knows? There are always drugs like Ayahuasca or high doses of psilocybin or LSD for extended journeys into subtle or cosmic realms.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You’re welcome, and thank you for your appreciation as well. These are just some thoughts from some of my own scholarship as well as even a little of my own experience, but shouldn’t necessarily be taken as gospel, I’d like to stress. For some things, your answer or speculation is probably about as good as mine.

            >Interesting. Except the duration would be much longer right?

            Again, I'm just guessing but I wouldn't think that it would be very long, as you'd have to return to normal consciousness at some point, I'd think maybe an hour tops, but who knows? There are always drugs like Ayahuasca or high doses of psilocybin or LSD for extended journeys into subtle or cosmic realms.

            I'm the OP so I don't actually know, but from what I've learned it would be something like a brief psychedelic trip, so unmistakable in that sense because it would be such a departure from regular consciousness.

            You can also find accounts in Swami Muktananda’s teachings of Siddha Yoga he did publicly in the West, besides accounts of and the writings of his Guru, Bhagavan Nityananda, who was even more developed and morally upright than Swami Muktananda. In fact, the whole case is also a warning of some of the dangers of this, as Swami Muktananda infamously became yet another abusive sex-fiending guru while publicly promoting celibacy, but people also STILL claim he did give them direct immediate powerful alterations of consciousness through Shaktipat. It seems Muktananda became corrupted by desire for fame, revering disciples, and, to put it simply, sex.

            Development of paranormal or psychic experiences, abilities, phenomena, are not necessarily the complete culmination of the spiritual path and may not even reflect on such a person’s moral development. That’s why it’s all a little dangerous. You can uncritically follow people you perhaps shouldn’t, just because they seem to be more developed than you in some other subtle/psychic ways. Hence how cults form. And hence again why esotericism, secrecy, and private initiation is a thing. To try to limit some of these bad effects, by having qualified gurus or teachers carefully vet disciples and put them through their paces. (But even in such cases some things can go wrong occasionally, apparently).

            Some accounts from Muktananda’s disciples halfway through this page: https://www.hinduismtoday.com/magazine/april-1995/1995-04-muktananda-s-legacy/

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Thanks for the answer, I have so much to study in the way of eastern mysticism and spirituality, it feels overwhelming. So in your opinion do some of the more visible occult organizations, for example O.T.O. or the rosicrucians, have the authentic initiatic tradition? Or is the real stuff only transmitted in private from master to student?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I always felt the waters were muddied with OTO, Thelema etc. A lot of these orders sound like they are in good origins but you read some stuff about the founders or what the lodges get up to and it's just high school jock occult yadda yadda. Is OTO worth seriously checking out?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >eyo!

          like imagine watching a movie right?
          you see..
          you interpret...
          do you interact?
          and do you see all there is?
          or only what the mind your experience made can.
          try to imagine...
          yet instead of imagining anything...
          listen. and watch. and observe. and be transported.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          To further and more simply answer you: direct immediate profound alteration of consciousness or even the direct witnessing or experiencing of a miracle.

          >So in your opinion do some of the more visible occult organizations, for example O.T.O. or the rosicrucians, have the authentic initiatic tradition?
          They could or could have at some point, at least some figures within them, but I think there’s also the possibility of initiation-gone-awry, as with Aleister Crowley, an undoubtedly very intelligent but pretty corrupt figure. It seems a few of these psychophysical phenomena can be cultivated but in a somewhat corrupt way, that even turns away or devolves away from the Divine; seeking the strengthening of one’s ego and paranormal experiences or abilities come at whatever cost to one’s soul.

          The majority of such well-known esoteric orders in the West are likely degenerated, but occasionally a real esoteric teacher might work in them, or at least DID work in them and inspired their founding. But they easily become like ‘shells’ of what they once were, still giving off some subtle radiations from it that draw people into the cult, but without the real heart of “Tradition” in it.

          >Or is the real stuff only transmitted in private from master to student?
          This seems likely more common. There are different historical cases, like Christ’s public teachings to found a new religion and institute a massive change on Earth. But then there are also the esoteric paths, and it seems this focus on privacy/secret initiation in such paths is precisely because some of these psychophysical phenomena can be abused by disreputable people. Like dark shamans who aim to curse/injure people instead of help them, even some corrupt yogis, or things like Tibetan black magic (as Milarepa famously trained in before his transformation and repentance and grueling spiritual training from his Guru Marpa to burn off his bad karmas he incurred from it).

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Thank you. Well, I hope somehow I'll find my way to the true path, there are so many supposed routes to these mysterious enlightenment experiences, and apparently some are false. Best of luck to you on your own journey.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Want an ability? Just ask with all your being and it will be given.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Actually yeah, but it doesn't work that well when you're unable to perceive the gifts and abilities which have been blessed onto you etc. So I guess a rite of passage is paramount first.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Die and reborn wishing what you want and it will happen.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Gopi Krishna on self-induced initiation and experiences with kundalini (very well worth reading): https://scienceandnonduality.com/article/interview-with-gopi-krishna-on-consciousness-and-kundalini/

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