Meditation practice

This monk says that Loving Kindness meditation alone can bring one through the Jhanas, to stream-entry, and to Nibbana, using a method called TWIM (https://www.dhammasukha.org/beginner-lovingkindness) which apparently is the "original" method the Buddha used, even though other sources in Buddhism don't seem to think so.
I'm a bit skeptical of this for obvious reasons.

What are your thoughts on Buddhist Metta meditation compared to standard mindfulness of breath?
What do you think is the best to reach the first Jhana and the four stages of enlightenment?

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Then looking at some sources I saw that the monk I posted in the OP was a smoker
    https://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/criticism/jhana_critique.htm
    Which I think is a pretty good argument against his teachings, if you can't abandon such a basic clinging as a monk, then what does it say about what you teach?

    I don't know which monks are even legit nowadays though, which are worth listening to for advice regarding meditation. Ajahn Chah was an arahant apparently, but who carries the torch now?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The key point for me is that they both seem to work. People will often do metta before practicing mindfulness of breathing and there's some awareness of breath in TWIM so it's not like they have to be opposed. They both require changing the meditation object later as well (breath stops/feelings become equanimous).

      Ajahn Chah also used to smoke. It's quite common in some parts of Asia as cigarettes aren't really considered to be intoxicating drugs. Ajahn Mun apparently smoked 4 cigarettes per day, which always sounded harder than quitting to me.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Plenty spiritual figures smoke, specially when you go to the native side of things. I don't see why they should drop smoking, it helps with meditative states and it's not a matter of being able to beat an addiction or not, someone who's a master of vipassana and shamatha has more than enough tools to drop smoking with little to no issue, if he's a master he's smoking because he wants to.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >helps with meditative states
        This tbh, I looked in the mirror after having one too many cigars and found myself in a spontaneous state of vipassana, never had I seen my body so clearly before, nor had I ever so clearly realized "this isn't me". Been interested in finding less risky ways to take nicotine sine then

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >if you can't abandon such a basic clinging as a monk
      Huh? That's like finding out someone drinks Pepsi, and stopping believing in their teachings because "they can't quit Pepsi."
      What if they're not trying to because it doesn't impact them negatively?
      Research the nocebo effect, it turns out you can me smoking a healthy habit.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >a smoker
      Why does this matter? The body-mind-spirit can handle smoke, if it feels good that's even better.
      Only eat dull food, the joy of enjoying food means one is corrupted because good things are bad?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Which I think is a pretty good argument against his teachings, if you can't abandon such a basic clinging as a monk, then what does it say about what you teach?
      Maybe his teachings are so good that even smoking is not an impediment to jnana.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/Rko94Lm.jpeg

      This monk says that Loving Kindness meditation alone can bring one through the Jhanas, to stream-entry, and to Nibbana, using a method called TWIM (https://www.dhammasukha.org/beginner-lovingkindness) which apparently is the "original" method the Buddha used, even though other sources in Buddhism don't seem to think so.
      I'm a bit skeptical of this for obvious reasons.

      What are your thoughts on Buddhist Metta meditation compared to standard mindfulness of breath?
      What do you think is the best to reach the first Jhana and the four stages of enlightenment?

      Bhante Vimalaramsi is fine for a beginner or intermediate level. his novelty is that the meninges are tight and basically the jhanas happens when the meninges get untight.

      It's kind of idiotic but it's not like you're going to harm yourself practicing whatever meditation he teaches. That's a huge plus compared to the stupid meditations in hinduism or mahayana or vajrayana.

      Overall, it's always the same thing: practice it for a few weeks but dont fall for the ''it's the real meditation taught by the buddha''

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >''it's the real meditation taught by the buddha''
        What is, then?

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I personally believe that someone has to find his own way, that way may be focusing on the breath and making it slower, or focusing on watching his thoughts and distancing himself from them, or focusing on his chakras or or or or.

    Maybe one could stop searching for the right way so much and instead put in the practice.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >What do you think is the best to reach the first Jhana and the four stages of enlightenment?
    sila, always sila.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Yep. Op, give bhante a try... Trust us, and if it doesn't work for you keep looking.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >keep looking
      You mean "keep practicing", this is the main issue i observe in this board.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Well yeah. I like his opinion of not reading anything for one year and to keep practicing. Looking back, it's one of the best spiritual advices to give.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    [...]
    Yep. Op, give bhante a try... Trust us, and if it doesn't work for you keep looking.

    I tried 6R meditation but it feels like constant effort, unlike breath meditation which is more natural.
    Can anyone attest that they've attained results with TWIM?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Can anyone attest that they've attained results with TWIM
      Yes. Be patient. It's not an effort if your mindfulness is sharp (what is mindfulness? Remembering how minds attention moves from one thing to the next, let it go and softly come back to the object of meditation). Breath is more "dry"...

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Breath is more "dry"
        But it's simpler, is it not? Just keep focusing on the in breath and out breath and eventually jhana happens.
        Whereas with TWIM, I have to find a happy event, bring up that feeling, radiate happiness to myself, then select a person, radiate happiness to them... It feels like more of a process.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Eh, I've been in your spot as well, it is a bit more "difficult" but it's rewarding. I've also leaned towards breath but I always switch back to metta because the "blows" of insight are softer and you accept them easier. With breath it's idk, they can be sorta brutal and I can see why some people have mental breakdowns. Metta also changes you, makes you softer and more happy, while with breath your personality doesn't change that much.

          Also always remember to keep your precepts, I can stress that enough.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I see. Have you reached a jhana with metta?
            How do you practice metta, do you use the method I described (find a good memory, hold on to the happy feeling, radiate happiness towards yourself)? How do you do it exactly?
            >keep your precepts
            The precepts are mostly easy to keep except right speech, I found

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Have you reached a jhana with metta?
            Yes.
            Well, my practice is how David described it in the past lives meditation video, I first take refuge in the three israeliteels, take my precepts, and then I tell mind to not fall into sloth and torpor (since those are one of my biggest faults). I try to give mind some minutes to calm down by not doing anything and not focusing on anything for a while and doing 6rs if mind gets attached to random thoughts. then I start sending good will towards animals from the "lesser" to the bigger ones. Then it's just sending metta towards the room in in, then to my whole house, then to my neighborhood, then to my city, then to my country, then to my continent, then to the whole world, then to our whole galaxy, and then I do the 6 directions. Let me share the video for you

            Ah well, right speech can be tricky but once you get it it's easy.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://youtu.be/g2up9njGHtI?si=2cIm-qLb7YXmj6Zs
            You can also meditate listening to this sutta... This one is very powerful so attend closely to it.

            ?si=-duB4ZKbF-mB2pdo

            Also remember the six directions aren't for beginners. So do the normal practice in the book.

            I see. Thanks for the tips. Are there preparatory practices in all forms of meditation, breath included, or do you do yours (taking refuge, precepts, etc) just because you feel it's better?
            >six directions aren't for beginners
            The beginner practice is just to radiate metta to yourself isn't it?

            Breath is also more intuned for people with a lustful personality, while metta is for people that have a hateful personality.

            I'm way more lustful than hateful. I'm more of an observer than an actor in the world, I don't really cling to my interactions with others but I cling to sensations

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're welcome, hope it helps you. And not really, I just do it because it establishes the rules for the session and mind responds well to rules placed on it. The best sessions where the ones where I never did any of that, and magical things happened.

            Yeah, to yourself and then to someone else that is dear to you, as a friend.

            Try metta for some months, it's faster and more pleasurable and makes you and those around you happy. You can later on try the breath meditation as bhante teaches it

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I have another question if you don't mind, how should the feeling of happiness be felt? I struggle to find a clear memory of a happy moment, so sometimes I imagine fictious moments, or even just draw upon a tapestry of sensations (visual, auditory etc) and elicit happiness from that. I'm not sure if I'm doing it wrong.
            >where I never did any of that, and magical things happened
            I was watching a video by Ajahn Brahm where he said that entering the jhanas happens when you stop trying to enter them. It's very hard to let go of that expectation though.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ask away, I'm not a teacher but I'll always be grateful to the one that put me on the path (which was here, on 4chinz).
            You're complicating it too much. Metta is good will, it's that feeling one feels when one holds a kitten, a little happy feeling in your chest but it can be anywhere. It's that feeling one has when one sees happy birds playing in the garden, or when someone does something nice to you to help you. Now compassion, that for you to see and feel it, but it took me 2 years to truly know what compassion really is.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Oh so it can be any little happy feeling, it doesn't have to be euphoria or whatever. And it intensifies as you get deeper in the meditation, right?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, correct. It can be very small but don't force it,just be in the moment of that pure feeling. It will change on its own,DO NOT force it or make it the way you want it to be,so not control it. Your only job is to observe and 6r when mind wanders.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Gotcha
            >6r
            I don't feel the tension in the head he talks about. So instead of going through all the Rs I just notice the distraction, let it go, and go back to the object of focus while keeping up the smile

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Keep the recipe intact, do the whole 6rs doesn't matter if you don't feel the tension, you'll notice with practice that other parts of the body are tense but don't body scan. Just relax and observe and let go of things. You'll get the hang of it with practice.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Okay then. I notice that metta meditation requires that you verbalize a lot of things, more so than breath meditation. Saying the 6 Rs in your head, or even going "may you be happy [...]" to whomever you're radiating metta to. This is normal, right? Do the words go away on their own after a while?

            >I'm aiming for jhanas, and stream-entry
            Then this is the way, trust me on this and have faith in bhante as your guide.
            Don't get attached to jhana when it happens, remember these words.

            No, destruction of the taints is my goal. Destruction of craving. It only happens when one sees with wisdom.

            >Don't get attached to jhana
            I know, jhana is not the goal. The goal is to be free from suffering; but wasn't it Gautama himself who said that being addicted to the jhanas could have only four possible outcomes: stream entry, once returning, non returning, or arahantship?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Eh, I don't mentally vocalize those things one just passively observe things like "okay let that go, nevermind" but it's ingrained. But it's fine to mentally vocalize but not Make it a mantra. Just observe.

            >addicted to the jhanas could have only four possible outcomes: stream entry,
            Nope, jhana is the direct path towards rebirth in the heavenly spheres. One has to be able to enter neither perception nor non perception and then fall into cessation to have a spiritual achievement, and jhana is one way of doing that. Some people do iddis but I think one needs a teacher for that and I think it might be harder in the end but more interesting maybe. Same as with the tevijja way, which is seeing past lives and doing a bunch of stuff but to reach that part one has to be able to enter or reach 4th jhana easily.

            Jhana and the brahmaviharas are only a vehicle to the goal, not the goal itself.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >it's ingrained
            Yeah I have to vocalize them for now, I haven't memorized them well enough yet. I do sometimes catch myself making them into a mantra so thanks for the heads up, I need to be careful with that
            >jhana is the direct path towards rebirth in the heavenly spheres
            Huh, I thought once you reached a certain jhana (was it the fifth?) you were guaranteed stream entry. Guess I was wrong.
            >iddis
            Huh?
            >tevijja
            Seems very interesting.
            Man I really suck at meditation. Some people are able to enter these states at will and have plenty of supernatural experiences to give them insight into the nature of reality and I'm there going "hey you're thinking about the grocery list again, go back to the object"
            >Jhana and the brahmaviharas
            It seems a bit muddled to me because some sources say there are insight jhanas and concentration jhanas and they're not the same, and then TWIM says you have the metta jhanas which are apparently not the same either.

          • 2 weeks ago
            METEYA ᛃᛟᚢᚨᛞᛖᚢᛊ

            Spoilers: None of them know what they're talking about or they'd be in agreement with each other. Benevolent people almost never publish information on jhanas because they're dangerous and extremely discomforting. Unless you have incredible mental fortitude, go find a real teacher and a sangha IRL if you want to pursue this.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >jhanas because they're dangerous and extremely discomforting.
            that's false, jhanas can never be dangerous because their fruits are tranquility or tranquility+insights

          • 2 weeks ago
            METEYA ᛃᛟᚢᚨᛞᛖᚢᛊ

            Absolutely not. Only the very beginning stages are peaceful, and that's about all you'll find on the Internet without serious digging into things the authors consider dangerous. True jhanas entail extreme discomfort, discontent with the world, nausea, vomiting, discomfort towards everything and everyone at some point. A lot of monks are driven insane several times in their progression. It's not an easy path where you just radiate loving kindness towards everything, it's a radical dive into the true nature of the world and it's not a pleasant path to walk.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            sad and false

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Benevolent people almost never publish information on jhana
            Because nobody...well, exceedingly few...listen

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Just remember to observe, if you let mind wander and after half an hour you're like hey, I got caught up again, that's okay as well. The thing is to remember to observe, mindfulness is the gas that the vehicle needs to keep on going. Don't be too hard on yourself, remember this is a practice that one has to take into every day life as well. Just be consistent and you'll be fine, not even Siddhartha was a pro when he began so why be so hard on yourself? You're just suffering because of craving heehee.

            It's not guaranteed, sadly, but it's a process that one keeps on building until the opening of the eye of wisdom happens, and it will only happen when you're ready, not when you want it to happen... Trust me. Patience is the path to nibbana, as hard as it is to swallow for me as well.

            Iddis is psychic powers.

            There's concentration based which is focusing too hard on something until something breaks, and one isn't aware of anything in the higher concentration jhanas, which is the practice that the Buddha was taught when he was but a bodhisattva, and then he remembers how when he was 10 years old, under an apple tree, he entered the "free flow" jhanas to say it sweetly. Metta jhanas are the brahmaviharas. Insight comes when it has to come, it'll come sooner or later.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah. I just often feel like my mind is too distracted all the time and I can't control it, like a horse that doesn't let itself be tamed. It's frustrating when in meditation, sometimes I sit for half an hour and feel like nothing has been achieved because it was 30 minutes of the mind just doing its thing.

            >"free flow" jhanas
            How are those different from the concentration jhanas?
            >brahmaviharas
            So when the Buddha told monks to abide in the jhanas, which ones was he referring to?
            Can all jhanas lead to insight?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're being too hard on yourself, you're just starting out. Mind will be like that at the start, just let it calm down and remind it gently to come back. It'll happen a lot as you're just starting, just don't give up and be patient.

            Because you relax the tension and tightness in your body and mind, aka letting go of craving.

            I don't know about concentration, I was lucky enough never to go that route and I'm glad it happened like that because if I had seen what I now know I might have gone crazy in a bad way, or I would have needed a teacher. The brahmaviharas have metta, compassion, altruistic joy and then equinimity as it's companion. You will feel those as well in breath but it'll be softer in breath.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Thanks for the reassurance. I'll keep going, that's the most important thing. Eventually it'll click I guess.
            >I might have gone crazy
            Really? You think concentration practices make the mind unstable?
            When we talk about brahmaviharas are you supposed to incorporate the other 3 (aside from metta) in meditation or do they come on their own?

            Oh yeah also, keeping your precepts is a must for good meditation sessions. Remember that 😉
            Something bhante said that actually helped me a lot is that someday you'll have these excellent meditation sessions and maybe next day it won't be as good as the day before. Accept it and move on, it happens, don't be discouraged, but if you're hell bent on the path it won't so I won't bring it up anymore.

            There's a saying in trading, that applies, I think, to the path... It's "process over profits" and it's very true. So just enjoy the ride and observe and let go of craving softly.

            Yes, I've only just begun to take the precepts seriously. Do you have any tips for right speech? Speech is automatic so it's easy to say something stupid and not realize it. I got the others covered (I think).

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Really? You think concentration practices make the mind unstable?
            I think so. I understand why people go crazy an some even commit suicide. I now understand it and I know it's better to be soft with mind.

            They'll come on their own, don sweat it.

            Observe how mind thinks when one is about to speak. I used to cuss a lot but now I don't, the hardest one for me was killing beings and when I started practicing and I killed a mosquito I observed how mind recoiled and the practice was filled with regret. Speech? I just say nice things or stay quiet if I'm irked or annoyed. I'm not a master nor am I a teacher, but when I get angry it's lesser that before, I see how it happens and I try to let go of it as quickly as I can, like dropping a hot potato. It takes practice, that's all

            Be kind to yourself 🙂 don't push <3

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            kek I often don't think when I'm about to speak, I think that's the problem.
            Were you a very angry person before?

            >Oh, I see. Is that why jhanas are said to be a substitute for material pleasure?
            Oh yeah.
            I take the brahmaviharas vow everyday. It's funny but it really protects you in dreams when one is having an erotic dream? It wakes me up.

            It's pleasurable, specially the higher jahanas... That's why you don't crave it nor do you cling to it. They can become a hindrance to some people.

            Brahmacharia* vow
            Celibacy

            I have lustful dreams almost every night so I should try that, thanks.
            >They can become a hindrance
            It's better to be hindered by brahmaviharas than by food or sex though isn't it?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Were you a very angry person before?
            Yes, very much so. Did a lot of bad things because of anger. When I started reading the path to nibbana I was like this is a bunch of bolonie, but I'll try it out. I remember my first ever session, I did it for an hour and some and when I came out of it I was so angry you have no idea, I swore I wasn't gonna do this practice ever again and that night I had a very powerful dream that shut me up and I continued my practice... I recoiled at metta, I used to hate it. But now I do it every day at least for 2 hours and a half. I'm not that angry anymore, I still get caught up, but it's less overwhelming than before all this.

            Not really! To be hindered by the craving of jhanas will not help you in the path. But it'll be like an obsession and when you don't get it you'll stop craving it and then it'll come? Maybe. That's what has been happening to me lately anyway.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Are there other dharma books that have helped you in your practice?
            >2 hours and a half
            Wow, I see. You must be relatively advanced on the path. Does it conflict with the layman life?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Here, I like these little snippets of his 😀

            ?si=-d8I-TCsBD0A7i9W

            I read only the nikkayas before; practice is more important to the path than scholarly pursuits (to me anyway)... currently reading the great disciples of the Buddha.

            No, not at all! I don't know, to be very honest with you... I live a very secluded life, I don't have many friends but when I was working it was difficult, or I was just too lazy to keep the practice going in a work environment. I have my personal opinion that to traverse the path completely one needs seclusion, yes... But I've heard of people being business owners that have reached anagami status so maybe it depends on temperaments.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's gold, thanks. I've been wondering why there are few clips of him on YouTube compared to other well known monks.
            >when I was working it was difficult
            Unsurprisingly. I think it depends on many factors aside from your own temperament: the nature of your work, your hours, your home life, etc.

            Also, try not to read for a couple of months at least. Read the path to nibbana and do the practice, that's it. I started reading the majjima nikkaya after a big breakthrough, and I totally agree with bhante when he said not to read anything at least for a year. You'll become confused if you don't have the eye of scripture.

            You mean no books at all or no dharma books? I need to read technical literature for my studies (and I do enjoy fiction every once in a while)
            I'll read the path to nibbana, there are so many meditation manuals (TMI, right concentration, path to nibbana, with each and every breath...) that analysis paralysis kicks in so I understand why it's not recommended to read a lot

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There's a lot of clips of him reading from the nikkayas, and also him and I think it's bhante Punaji talking. His talks are great.

            Yeah, it depends, and it might also depend how serious you are about the path? I still meditated when I was working, but only like half an hour 5 days a week maybe.

            No dharma books. You can read other things, but you'll soon come to find that with the practice you won't like doing the things you used to like doing, I used to read a lot back in the day. Not anymore. It's a gradual path. The thing you're describing of liking technical/logical reads is a subtle type of craving, where mind likes to cling to those things because when it thinks and makes plans it enjoys that. Try not to get to you.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Man, we were talking about precepts and just now I'm being harassed by a mosquito.
            >how serious you are
            I want to follow the path to fruition. I'm not yet ready to abandon lay life, but I think I will eventually; maybe in a few decades, but I won't die a layman. I live alone, I have a technical job, I'm not too burdened as far as personal life goes, which is a blessing.
            >half an hour
            That's not enough, is it?
            >subtle type or craving
            Oh for sure, I like to entertain the mind's need for logical consistency and so on. It's also my job, so it's a matter of livelihood. But I'm sure I'll abandon it eventually.
            What do you enjoy doing nowadays?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I have telegram if you wanna keep on chatting. It's a nice thing to have friends on the spiritual life. Telegram is Mairon

            Haha, blow him away and sent it loving kindness. I used to be a mosquito/fly killer... Not anymore!

            It's not enough but it's a start, 30 minutes is. The practice will deepen and you'll be sitting for longer later down the line.

            Yep, I know what you mean. One can keep doing what one does if it doesn't hinder too much on the practice.

            Being with my parents, talking with the birds that come and visit our house everyday. I started studying trading and I'm trying to make it something that I could live off of. Meditation is very synergetic with trading in a lot of ways. I used to play Vidya but not much anymore, used to read. I have a very dull life but it works for me. I used to enjoy weight lifting but I had the idea that I was only doing it for vanitys sake so I stopped. What do you work in? Programming?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sure thing, I added you, I'll send a message shortly.
            Yep, my reflex was to slap it and then I went "wait stop" and I just shoo'd it away. Hard to feel compassion for mosquitoes but I guess we must.

            30 minutes is my maximum right now, monkey brain doesn't sit still. It'll come eventually I'm sure. Just have to keep practicing. Maybe use a timer

            You call it dull but it seems like a peaceful life. I'd take up weightlifting again for health though, to avoid pain later down the line. As for trading, I want to get into it too, maybe algorithmic trading, seems like a good way to make passive income.
            Yeah I'm in tech, currently doing a short training program and I'll be working at a small company in September. It should be a good enough environment.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I started studying trading
            me too, i trade futures ES and NQ with moving averages and oscillators.
            What do you trade and with what method?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Me too, Ive started practicing trading with MNQ, switched from stock swinging to futures. I use the VWAP/ pice action/market structure on the one minute timeframe. Still need more practice 🙂

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            how many lots to you trade?
            how much money do you target per day?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm only paper trading for now, want to do it for another month to really work out my strategy. I started using one contract then scaling it up to 5, currently working on 8 and want to try out 10 contracts per trade. One of my rules is only trading 2-3 times per day to cut down on over trading.
            My daily target is 200 dollars, but right now profit targets aren't that important for now because I believe in the process over profits idea for beginners until trading intuition is sharper.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Also, try not to read for a couple of months at least. Read the path to nibbana and do the practice, that's it. I started reading the majjima nikkaya after a big breakthrough, and I totally agree with bhante when he said not to read anything at least for a year. You'll become confused if you don't have the eye of scripture.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            These have helped a lot as well
            https://www.dhammasukha.org/support-page-for-online-retreats

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >I was lucky enough never to go that route
            So much facepalm

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Oh yeah also, keeping your precepts is a must for good meditation sessions. Remember that 😉
            Something bhante said that actually helped me a lot is that someday you'll have these excellent meditation sessions and maybe next day it won't be as good as the day before. Accept it and move on, it happens, don't be discouraged, but if you're hell bent on the path it won't so I won't bring it up anymore.

            There's a saying in trading, that applies, I think, to the path... It's "process over profits" and it's very true. So just enjoy the ride and observe and let go of craving softly.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >someday you'll have these excellent meditation sessions and maybe next day it won't be as good as the day before.
            If one isnt getting the light show every day then one isnt on a rote enough path

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Concentration suppresses craving, and when one comes out of the meditation craving will come back with a vengeance and will be overwhelming. The normal jhanas are letting go of craving by not keeping your attention on them. Forgot to add that.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Oh, I see. Is that why jhanas are said to be a substitute for material pleasure?
            Can the brahmaviharas be like that as well, or do they have no effect on craving? I heard stories of people who just ended up preferring jhanic states to anything else (good food, sex, etc) and eventually made good progress thanks to that. It seemed like a good way to ground your practice into something pleasurable but skillful.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Oh, I see. Is that why jhanas are said to be a substitute for material pleasure?
            Oh yeah.
            I take the brahmaviharas vow everyday. It's funny but it really protects you in dreams when one is having an erotic dream? It wakes me up.

            It's pleasurable, specially the higher jahanas... That's why you don't crave it nor do you cling to it. They can become a hindrance to some people.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Brahmacharia* vow
            Celibacy

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            The energy bath you get every night is truly amazing

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I never did any of that, and magical things happened
            >I was watching a video by Ajahn Brahm where he said that entering the jhanas happens when you stop trying to enter them. It's very hard to let go of that expectation though.
            I wasn't particularly talking about jhana, honestly I don't care about jhana. I'm talking about seeing with wisdom's eye

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm aiming for jhanas, and stream-entry. For which jhanas are a requirement according to most anyway. But I'm especially interested in jhanas in order to ground me into meditation and help me completely abandon worldly pleasure for good.
            >seeing with wisdom's eye
            Oh, insight?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm aiming for jhanas, and stream-entry
            Then this is the way, trust me on this and have faith in bhante as your guide.
            Don't get attached to jhana when it happens, remember these words.

            No, destruction of the taints is my goal. Destruction of craving. It only happens when one sees with wisdom.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >I wasn't particularly talking about jhana, honestly I don't care about jhana. I'm talking about seeing with wisdom's eye
            Oh sweet naivete

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            ?si=2cIm-qLb7YXmj6Zs
            You can also meditate listening to this sutta... This one is very powerful so attend closely to it.

            ?si=-duB4ZKbF-mB2pdo

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Also remember the six directions aren't for beginners. So do the normal practice in the book.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Breath is also more intuned for people with a lustful personality, while metta is for people that have a hateful personality.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Vimalaramsi says to do metta, and Thanissaro says to do breath meditation.
    Who is right?

  7. 2 weeks ago
    METEYA ᛃᛟᚢᚨᛞᛖᚢᛊ

    Look at his eyes. Not an enlightened man, just another sad old boomer trying to scam people with agape propaganda. Metta and tonglen are very powerful but far from enough to awaken jhanas, you need real steel hard willpower to do so.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >you need real steel hard willpower to do so
      no, will power is useless sin buddhism. will power is a israeli obsession.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Willpower absolutely required, newbie

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          no, will power achieves nothing in buddhism. what matters is making the factors arise

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >willpower doesnt make the factors arise
            I suppose if one's application is unskillful enough

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Jhana arise, they are not up and created
            >The conditions must be set for their arising
            >Generating anything at all is a glass ceiling
            you would do well to understand this post
            willpower drives the rote application of proper technique that sets the conditions for jhana's arising
            thinking happy things is not a path to jhana

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Willpower absolutely required, newbie

            Willpower is preferred. "Absolutely required" seems a bit extreme and so does it "achieves nothing"

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            willpower required to establish requisite habit-energy

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >another sad old boomer trying to scam people with agape propaganda
      I don't think he's old or a boomer. He looks like mid 30's. Nice call with calling it agape though. I think that's accurate.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >He looks like mid 30's
        No lol

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Damn, I thought this was a Bhante Varrapanyo thread.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Lately I did some sessions where I don't put any effort into controlling my attention at all. I just relax away any tensions/sensations/weak piti that come up.
    After 20 minutes of doing that there's a sudden shift where my mind starts feeling very calm and sharp and there's almost no sensation coming from the body (unless I move), ears start ringing, breath almost gone. I haven't managed to stay there for long because it starts weirding me out after a while. Is that access concentration or something?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sounds good. The key was always relax

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >ears start ringing,
      Btw this points towards concentration. Try relaxing

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Could be. It doesn't happen every time

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Knock knock knockin on the door but not going through the doorway

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Guys, can someone guide me, where one can start to obtain these teachings as a beginner?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Read the book, the path to nibbana. It's all there.

      Sure thing, I added you, I'll send a message shortly.
      Yep, my reflex was to slap it and then I went "wait stop" and I just shoo'd it away. Hard to feel compassion for mosquitoes but I guess we must.

      30 minutes is my maximum right now, monkey brain doesn't sit still. It'll come eventually I'm sure. Just have to keep practicing. Maybe use a timer

      You call it dull but it seems like a peaceful life. I'd take up weightlifting again for health though, to avoid pain later down the line. As for trading, I want to get into it too, maybe algorithmic trading, seems like a good way to make passive income.
      Yeah I'm in tech, currently doing a short training program and I'll be working at a small company in September. It should be a good enough environment.

      Oh don't worry, you'll be feeling compassion for every being, even your enemies, with this practice.

      It will, everything is practice. I use a timer as well, but you can also start learning determination, which is before starting the meditation you tell yourself "let us it for an hour" or "wake up at x Time" and it does happen.

      Hah! You wanna pick up trading as well? Nice! It's gonna be a great ride for you, in sure, and we'll be able to talk about hat as well, if you'd like. The best thing is that,ironically, it'll help you know yourself better, how you react, and meditation will help you to deal with it. I'm pretty sure tech is great for meditation life as well, because you don't have to really deal much with people, so you'll be able to integrate it a lot with your daily life.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What if I like hating my enemies?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Nobody likes hating, it makes you suffer. It's something you're gonna have to let go to continue the path.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, you see, I maintain that having enemies and hating them is part of what you are. Suppose they sold you a pill that made you enjoy being bitten by mosquitoes, and then you'd fill your room with mosquitoes that bite you and feel in nibbana.
            I'd claim that person would no longer be you.
            It's like a lobotomy that makes you wake up and love your enemies.
            There's no bad emotions, most people suffer because they feel bad when they're upset, or angry or they feel hate...
            The most successful thing I've found is to accept those emotions and embrace them, then you'll feel good when you're upset, or angry, or when you're hating something.
            You could feel so sad you would cry, and not feel bad about it, it no longer makes you suffer, and this is much more effective than nullifying those emotions and become someone that "doesn't hate anything."
            Because what I've seen from those people is that they eventually blow up.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >is part of what you are
            Delusion.
            If what you say is true, then imagine sarriputta reacting in a violent manner when hit on the head, or when a brahmin insulted Siddhartha. You're talking from ignorance and delusion, and from not understanding how things actually work.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >then imagine sarriputta reacting in a violent manner when hit on the head, or when a brahmin insulted Siddhartha.
            Those were people that didn't hate, I am someone that hates.
            Asking me to become someone that doesn't hate is like asking them to become someone that does. Become a different person.
            We are a series of attributes, that's what defines us, and I hold it's superior to be someone that is capable of hating, because other people are incapable, their wheel of feelings is incomplete, and not really different from someone that can't feel surprise.
            It's normal that we can feel everything that a human can feel, and unnatural to do things that block certain feelings, and become less of a human being.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Those were people that didn't hate, I am someone that hates
            Then there's nothing of value that you can bring to the table about the spiritual path, since youre just acknowledging that you're a worldly trapped in the cycle of attachments and craving, based on a wrong personality view. Trapped in delusion about what "i am".

            Read the simile of the saw from the majjima nikkaya.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >There's no bad emotions, most people suffer because they feel bad when they're upset, or angry or they feel hate...
            >The most successful thing I've found is to accept those emotions and embrace them, then you'll feel good when you're upset, or angry, or when you're hating something.
            this stems from still caring about the eternal world, which leads only to care more about the external world

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because I've fully explored the other extreme, the side of apathy, and there's nothing there.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Apathy is not equanimity.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're trying to remove the black part of the ying yang.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Haha you n'wah

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sounds good. I don't actually like feeling enmity towards someone. It's like scratching a mosquito bite, unsatisfactory yet you keep doing it.
        >determination
        I've noticed that I do often wake up exactly one minute before my alarm. Weird stuff. But regarding meditation, I'd be more comfortable using an alarm, at least when starting out. Otherwise I get too eager to stop (when is this done? Am I finished yet? How long has it been? My nose itches. Alright ten more breaths...)
        >It's gonna be a great ride for you
        No doubt. We can talk about it more in depth on telegram, sure. I haven't started yet though, and I think I'll only be able to really put work into it by the end of summer, but it'd be great to talk to another anon who is interested in this.
        >tech is great for meditation
        I think so, yes. Interactions are mostly technical, and with people similarly disinterested in gossip as you are, so the possibilities for unskillful chatter are less than they'd be in, say, sales.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >But regarding meditation, I'd be more comfortable using an alarm, at least when starting out.
          You can also integrate walking meditation if mind is experiencing restlessness. We all experience restlessness anyway, the only ones that don't are the perfected ones, since it's one of the last hindrances to be destroyed. You can also bring up the enlightenment factor of equianimity but that's when you're deeper in he practice.

          The good thing about trading is that you can can practice with a paper trading account. You'll come to know with experience that only trading various hours a day will you become a profitable trader.

          Yes, I know tech is a good field to be in if one has the tendency to be a loner. Haha! Funny you say sales, I was always good at that since I can be very charismatic without being a lier, never really used that skill to say, study business or anything related, but yeah...
          Another thing you might notice down the line with that practice is that people will love you, they will appreciate you a lot and you might attract more attention than you want to yourself because of the spiritual practice of metta. So the advice is to try not to look at people from the opposite sex in the eyes when you're radiating metta to not make them confused about your intentions.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >We all experience restlessness
            Has it diminished for you over time?
            >paper trading
            Yeah there's also stuff like investopedia where you can trade in real time with fake money. Plenty of resources either way, though right now I'm focusing on other stuff so I haven't had the time to study finance, I don't even know what kind of financial instruments I want to trade.
            >I was always good at that
            Do you get approached more when you radiate metta? Do you experience synchronicities or stuff like that?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Has it diminished for you over time?
            Yes and no, I can identify it better and just tell it no and come back to my object. And sometimes Ive had enough and get up.

            Hey, I didn't know one could paper trade on investopidia? For reals? Im using trading view but it has some minor issues for me. Just focus on futures or forex if you're into that. Futures are better in every sense of the word.
            >Do you get approached more when you radiate metta?
            Yeah, even when Im not inclined to it. People smile a lot towards you, they're nice, animals come to you. There's 10 benefits of metal as the Buddha explained in a sutta. Meditation as a whole will open you up to "paranormal" situations as a whole. You see things, sometimes you dream, a lot of deja vus, sometimes you can read people's mind or intuitively know what they're thinking, stuff like that

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >For reals
            Yeah, go to their stock simulator. I haven't played around with it much but it seems to work
            >Futures are better
            Thanks, I'll keep that in mind when I get to it then.
            >Meditation as a whole will open you up to "paranormal" situations
            I see. Any interesting experiences you might want to share that are examples of this?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.016.piya.html

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Loving Kindness meditation alone can bring one through the Jhanas
    Aren't jhanas basically different levels of concertation?
    How is generating an emotion in your chest get equated with intense single pointed concentration? These two manifestations aren't even in the same area of the body

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You use that feeling as the meditation object instead of the breath

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There is normally a progression from coarse to subtle in these doctrines. Thats why old Buddhist manuals start with kasina meditation for reaching the jhanas and meta and anapanasati are taugh after you mastered them.
        Sometimes skipping steps because you think the advanced techniques will get you faster results has the opposite effect.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Jhana arise, they are not up and created
      The conditions must be set for their arising
      Generating anything at all is a glass ceiling

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        God I hate Buddhists so much it's unreal. You're just saying the same thing but in a mumbo jumbo way.
        >Jhana arise, they are not up and created
        >The conditions must be set for their arising

        >muscle contractions arise, they are not up and created
        >the conditions must be set for those contraction arising

        It's a distinction without a meaningful difference you pseud. Jhanas ""arise"" through single pointed concentration. That is the condition for them to arise. Doing meta is not a substitute for it. As another anon said itt, this is just a boomer scamming people with agape propaganda

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          no you jackass, you can issue an intent and immediately your muscle moves
          one cannot issue an intent and make jhanas arise
          learn to read

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >you can issue an intent and immediately your muscle moves
            If the muscle is atrophied, then it doesn't do that. Jhana training is the equivalent of training an atrophied muscle back normal operation. Visuddhimagga clearly states that you master the jhanas when you effortlessly switch between them, even jumping over every second one. So mastered jhanas actually do act exactly like a muscle. All this "arising" is nonsense made up to make the whole process more esoteric than it is

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >If the muscle is atrophied, then it doesn't do that.
            you're not getting around my quite factual statement with moronic pilpul
            >All this "arising" is nonsense made up to make the whole process more esoteric than it is
            this is how you can tell the person writing has no akshual meditative experience
            meditative phenomena ARISE because they simply happen at some point after the conditions for the arising are met. there's nothing mysterious about this, since you know a muscle cannot be severely atrophied and still function normally. but you miss the obvious part about willful intent being completely unable to make any meditative phenomena arise on command, it simply does not happen.
            this is such a crucial distinction it simply makes you look like a malding little zoomer who wants to feel right about something he's saying, but the problem is you dont have the experience to back any of it up.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >about willful intent being completely unable to make any meditative phenomena arise on command
            There is literally an example in Visuddhimagga about a monk that was saved from death because one of his disciples was able to enter jhana "on command" and make the snake passthrough the meditating master.
            You're a moron that has no idea what he's talking about and am willing to bet with ZERO realization, in any path.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >a monk that was saved from death because one of his disciples was able to enter jhana "on command"
            another entering jhana is not going to save anyone from their imminent death
            >and make the snake passthrough the meditating master.
            sounds more like a skillfull energy application
            >am willing to bet with ZERO realization
            go ahead and put money down, so chuckle worthy when thousands have been taught by me

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >another entering jhana is not going to save anyone from their imminent death
            Jhanas come with siddhis. Mastered jhanas illicit control over the elements. You'd know this if you'd have at least read the classics. COntrol over the elements might come in handy if your master is attacked.
            >sounds more like a skillfull energy application

            >classic text atributes it to jhana mastery
            >the master in the classical text applauds his pupil for the great mastery of jhana
            anon here
            >nuh huh, its akshually ki, it was goku doing it

            >so chuckle worthy when thousands have been taught by me
            you got countless reatards teaching and preaching all type of nonsense to credulous people. Just the fact you even bring something like this up just shows you're a complete moron and are unable to read even the simplest text
            >oh so you think I have no realization? Then how do you explain the fact I'm teaching people? In fact I'm even teaching you right now! Checkmate
            kys and don't breed

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >expressing a siddhi is the same thing as entering jhana
            seriously, cmon now
            you may have read some things but you have not put in the time in cultivation to verify for yourself these things

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            let me put this in a way even a mouth breeder like you can understand.

            >Siddhis arise, they are not up and created
            >The conditions must be set for their arising

            The conditions necessary for siddhis to "arise" is to enter jhanas. In order to have access to siddhis and to control the elements "on command" means you need to be able to enter various jhanas "on command"
            Just to reiterate: kys and don't breed

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Siddhis arise
            learn to debate properly you cretin
            changing my words around and criticizing what you have created is a logical fallacy
            >in order to express siddhis you need to be able to enter various jhanas "on command"
            you're mixing up your terminology and need to study a bit more
            but I doubt you have the drive to put in the cultivation necessary to realize any of that which you speak

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Doing meta is not a substitute for it
          and in my other posts I wrote about what real metta is and how that also is a byproduct and an outcome and conjuring good feelings is not akshually metta

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >mindfulness of breath
    This is just an exercise. It does not exclude the practice of attunement toward a feeling like the monk is apparently referring to.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://dhammatalks.net/suttacentral/sc2016/sc/en/ea17.1.html

    After the Bhagavān had finished imparting this subtle teaching to Rāhula, then Rāhula promptly arose from his seat and bowed at the feet of the Buddha. Circumambulating him three times, he then departed. Arriving in the Andha Garden, he stopped at the foot of a tree. He corrected his body, corrected his intention, and sat cross-legged. Without any other thoughts, he fastened his mind on the tip of his nose. [1] When there was a long breath out, he was also aware of the long breath. [2] When there was a long breath in, he was also aware of the long breath. [3] When there was a short breath out, he was also aware of the short breath. [4] When there was a short breath in, he was also aware of the short breath. [5] When there was a cold breath out, he was also aware of the cold breath. [6] When there was a cold breath in, he was also aware of the cold breath. [7] When there was a warm breath out, he was also aware of the warm breath. [8] When there was a warm breath in, he was also aware of the warm breath. [9] He completely contemplated the in-breaths and out-breaths of the body, and was aware of them all. [10] When there was breathing, he was aware of its presence. [11] When there was no breathing, he was aware of its absence. [12] If there was an out-breath conditioned by the mind, he was aware that it came from the mind. [13] If there was an in-breath conditioned by the mind, he was aware that it came from the mind.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    At this time, Rāhula cultivated thusly, and a mind of desires was set free, not returning to the multitude of evils. [1] Contemplating with this mindfulness, he maintained the joy and bliss of roaming in the First Dhyāna, in which there is vitarka and vicāra. [2] When vitarka and vicāra came to a rest, he experienced inner bliss and single-pointedness of mind. Without initial and sustained application of the mind, with only bliss born from samādhi, he roamed in the Second Dhyāna. [3] Observing awareness, he experienced the physical pleasure that the Noble Ones constantly experience with equanimity, the complete satisfaction and mindfulness of roaming in the Third Dhyāna. [4] When both pain and pleasure were eliminated, there were no more worries and vexations. Without pain and pleasure, only completely pure and perfect mindfulness, he roamed in the Fourth Dhyāna.

    From this samādhi, his mind was completely pure, without the dust of defilements, and his physical body was supple and soft. He was aware of places from the past, and remembered what he had previously done. He recalled previous lives over incalculable eons. He was aware of one, two, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, one hundred, one thousand, ten thousand, even hundreds of thousands of lives. He recalled the passing of eons as well as the destruction of eons, countless successions of eons and their destructions—hundreds of millions of incalculable eons. He recalled his previous births, that he had various names, was born into certain families, ate such and such food, experienced such and such suffering and happiness. He knew whether his lives were long or short, and that he died in such and such a place, and he was reborn in such and such a place.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    From this samādhi, his mind was completely pure, without fetters, and his mind was able to know about the origins of sentient beings. Moreover, by means of the complete purity and clarity of the Divine Eye, he saw the birth and death of sentient beings, their good forms and evil forms, good destinies and evil destinies, and understood that in reality they actually come from good or bad actions. If there were sentient beings who practiced evil in body, speech, and mind, who insulted the Noble Ones, practicing and holding false views, then at the end of their lives when their bodies were broken apart, they would enter into the hells. However, if there were sentient beings who practice virtue in body, speech, and mind, who do not insult the Noble Ones, and who practice and hold correct views, then at the end of their lives when their bodies are broken apart, they would go to live in the heavens above. This is called the complete purity and clarity of the Divine Eye, with which one sees the birth and death of sentient beings, their good forms and evil forms, good destinies and evil destinies, and understands that in reality they actually come from good or bad actions.

    Moreover, he practiced the contemplation of suffering, and was aware of both the ending of suffering and the origin of suffering, truly aware of them as such. By means of developing this mindfulness, his mind attained liberation from the outflows of desires, and his mind attained liberation from the outflows of ignorance. After attaining these liberations, he naturally attained the liberation of wisdom, and birth and death then came to an end. Brahmacarya had been established, what was to be done, had been done, and there was no more coming back into existence—thus was his true awareness. It was at this time that Venerable Rāhula became an arhat.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The path to Arahantship by Ajahn Dtun

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    can somebody identify which sutta ajahn brahm talks about at 04m55s
    it's the sutta about wanting to be reborn in a specific realm
    https://lbvmedia.blob.core.windows.net/talks/Ajahn_Brahmavamso_20141029_QandA_at_LBV.mp3

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Videos on Meditation and being present:

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      kys

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    By the way anon did you see my message on telegram or did I send it to the wrong user?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      t.me/NwahCHIM

  19. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >What are your thoughts on Buddhist Metta meditation
    Tis rather a winding route
    Trying to meditate on what should be a natural outcome of proper practice
    Engaging the mind is the opposite of meditation

  20. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >which apparently is the "original" method the Buddha used
    it totally isnt

  21. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >This monk says that Loving Kindness meditation alone can bring one through the Jhanas
    Ok but what is even the point of all of this, you don't get any power out of it, and it pretty much seems like you guys are only doing it because you are being blackmailed with the threat of being forced back into the reincarnation cycle lol.

    When you take a good look at this belief system it's honestly not that different from other religions threatening you with hell and demanding strict religious practice to avoid that hell.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >you don't get any power out of it,
      trying to conjure the outcome of metta, kek, no you dont
      when metta arises as a natural byproduct of proper practice,
      then its real metta
      instead of fake metta so you dont have to make metta

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Sounds like a waste of time and effort. Imagine if your boss at work tried to play those word games and demanded free labor from you. You wouldn't go along with that flawed logic then. It's funny how people pick and choose when to switch the logic chip in their brains on and off.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Imagine if your boss at work tried to play those word games and demanded free labor from you.
          kid when you try to make an analogy, at least try to make something logical and applicable.
          >having happiness come about as a byproduct of proper practice sounds like a waste of time
          fact of the matter is my poor uneducated and inexperienced guy, the conditioning and tuning of the endocrine system is very much a good and proper outcome of practice, and when one's endocrine system is highly functioning, one is invariably happy
          most certainly not a waste of time to flex the endocrine into higher gears
          but as most people dont know these things, I cant entirely blame your moronic statements

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >kid when you try to make an analogy, at least try to make something logical and applicable.
            It is, you are just too indoctrinated to see how low value and pointless your goal is.

            > the conditioning and tuning of the endocrine system is very much a good and proper outcome of practice, and when one's endocrine system is highly functioning, one is invariably happy
            So you are becoming a druggie with extra effort and extra steps. Just buy weed and smoke it daily, it will have the same effect and you won't have to meditate for a decade or more to get that lol. I don't smoke or drink btw, I don't use any drugs, but it's still an option for some people.

            All this effort to forcefully train your mind into inducing a state of happiness sounds moronic. If you had millions of dollars you could live a comfy effortless free life of travel, good food and women, wouldn't that also make you happy?

            That would make me happy everyday, but I guess you may not like those things for some reason.

            IDK Buddhism just seems kinda pathetic to me. It's like training to use mental techniques to neuter your sense of self so that you can no longer perceive the suffering. It's like someone who has to eat shit everyday finds some way to train their tongue to not taste and their nose to not smell. Good for them, they've found a decent loophole to make existence more tolerable, but at the end of the day THEY'RE STILL EATING SHIT.

            I see your method (Buddhist Method) of attaining happiness or escaping suffering, as convoluted and illogical. You are training yourself to ignore and accept, rather than overcome and attain.

            I'd much rather have than train myself to be ok with not having. The path of having and attaining is much more straight forward and logical than the path of training your mind to being ok with not having and losing.

            1/2

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >it will have the same effect
            you just keep giving out examples of how I know you're a dumb kid
            >All this effort to forcefully train your mind into inducing a state of happiness sounds moronic
            I mean you dont even know what the meaning of "natural byproduct of proper practice" is
            >It's like training to use mental techniques to neuter your sense of self so that you can no longer perceive the suffering.
            ultimate zoomer take
            >Once you've had sex with enough beautiful women, sex isn't really all that tempting.
            in my day we had sex, kid. I've gotten laid 6000, 7000 times, akshual number high enough to be impossible to say with accuracy. I had more sex before I was 18 than you'll have in your entire life.
            you're just some dumb kid shit talking ignorantly
            hasnt a lick of understanding of anything you criticize

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >in my day we had sex, kid. I've gotten laid 6000, 7000 times, akshual number high enough to be impossible to say with accuracy
            Lol, you are making the troll too obvious.

            You literally live like a king compared to the people 2000 years ago. Why don't you throw it all away and live in the dirt? You should've gotten your fill of the civilized life

            >You literally live like a king compared to the people 2000 years ago.
            1. My desire is not to "move beyond materialism", don't confuse my argument and don't project. My point was that for the people THAT WANT TO do that, it would be way easier for them to do so if they "had their fill".

            2. Kings got to frick harems of women, where are all of my b***hes, I've only had like 3? lol. I haven't had my fill of sex yet, not even close, especially when compared to Buddha. But once again, I don't have the goal of "moving beyond materialism", I don't have the same beliefs or views as you guys do.

            >>You guys are playing with a handicap. Once you've had sex with enough beautiful women, sex isn't really all that tempting.
            [...]
            >>All this effort to forcefully train your mind into inducing a state of happiness sounds moronic. If you had millions of dollars you could live a comfy effortless free life of travel, good food and women, wouldn't that also make you happy?

            you're contradicting yourself

            [...]
            >>I see your method (Buddhist Method) of attaining happiness or escaping suffering, as convoluted and illogical. You are training yourself to ignore and accept, rather than overcome and attain.
            also it's the opposite. buddhist don't ignore reality since they acknowledge hedonism is flawed.
            and why would happiness depend on external things like having a prostitute at home?

            >>The reason why Siddhartha Gautama was able to become Buddha is because of the quality of life he experienced BEFORE he became Buddha.
            it's because he got insights into the real nature of the aggregates

            >you're contradicting yourself
            There is no contradiction, there is more than one path to happiness. Having all of the things millions of dollars would afford you would make you happy, and once you've enjoyed it for enough years it will become "normal" to you, and that will make it easier to give up IF you wanted to do so because your beliefs started to change (just like Buddha who spent years enjoying the life of a prince with harems, etc, and had his fill after years of it becoming "normal" to him).

            >why would happiness depend on external things like having a prostitute at home?
            There's more than one way to attain happiness, depends on what makes you happy and depends on what stage of life you are in. Having a prostitute at home will make most young virile men in their 20's very happy, and the why is obvious, the why is biology.

            >it's because he got insights into the real nature of the aggregates
            You keep coping and telling yourself that. It's mostly because he "had his fill", there was no FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) pulling him back in, nobody for him to be jealous of (writings ay he was both tall and handsome), etc.

            He was born at top of the food chain.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            you ignorant boomers deserve to be trolled for your insolence
            makes it all the more funny cuz its true

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            I totally typed zoomer

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >My point was that for the people THAT WANT TO do that, it would be way easier for them to do so if they "had their fill".
            Some people have everything they ever wanted but still don't feel happy. The question is how many of them throw it all away instead of trying to get more money/women/whatever. I mostly see the latter in real life. Or maybe that's not true, I haven't looked at any statistics.
            In other words, your dopamine receptors always want more. They rebel if you remove stimulation, even if that stimulation feels normal. If you get bored of women you try to find something more existing until that becomes boring too etc.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >In other words, your dopamine receptors always want more.
            I quit drinking soft drink years ago. Do you know why I was able to do it, because I had drank enough of it. I've already tasted all the good shit, and because of that I don't feel anymore craving for it. I can remember the taste in my mind and I know I've had my fill, so drinking water all the time doesn't feel like a chore, it feels easy. I can even drink some fruit juice every now and then.

            But again, you have to WANT to stop in order for it to really be enough. You might be thinking of people who see no reason to stop and don't want to stop, and then saying - "look, they've had they fill and still won't stop". That's a false comparison.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            The greatest irony of all this, is that before Siddhartha Gautama became Buddha, he spent years as royalty (a prince) fricking harems of women, eating the best food, enjoying everything there is to enjoy. That's why it was so easy of him to let go of the material world, he got to have his fill, he didn't experience FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out). Then years later, along comes poor fools like yourself who try to chase after his accomplishments when you haven't gotten to enjoy all the things he did that made giving up on worldly pleasures so much easier.

            You guys are playing with a handicap. Once you've had sex with enough beautiful women, sex isn't really all that tempting. But the average men will never know that feeling like Buddha did, so it's funny and misguided to try and hold yourself to his standard.

            The reason why Siddhartha Gautama was able to become Buddha is because of the quality of life he experienced BEFORE he became Buddha. Average men like you are undergoing the same trials with a handicap. The more you get to enjoy of the material world, the more normal it becomes to you, and the less you yearn for it, so it's easier to give up because "I've had my fill, I want to do something different".

            You will never experience that level of effortless satisfaction, and effortless resistance to such temptations because you already know what it's like and there's no curiosity to draw you in.

            If more men got to live the first part of Buddha's life, more men would more easily become like Buddha.

            You guys are conveniently leaving out the "living as a prince" part of the equation of becoming like Buddha, and this is why most of you are going to fail.

            2/2

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            You literally live like a king compared to the people 2000 years ago. Why don't you throw it all away and live in the dirt? You should've gotten your fill of the civilized life

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >>You guys are playing with a handicap. Once you've had sex with enough beautiful women, sex isn't really all that tempting.

            >kid when you try to make an analogy, at least try to make something logical and applicable.
            It is, you are just too indoctrinated to see how low value and pointless your goal is.

            > the conditioning and tuning of the endocrine system is very much a good and proper outcome of practice, and when one's endocrine system is highly functioning, one is invariably happy
            So you are becoming a druggie with extra effort and extra steps. Just buy weed and smoke it daily, it will have the same effect and you won't have to meditate for a decade or more to get that lol. I don't smoke or drink btw, I don't use any drugs, but it's still an option for some people.

            All this effort to forcefully train your mind into inducing a state of happiness sounds moronic. If you had millions of dollars you could live a comfy effortless free life of travel, good food and women, wouldn't that also make you happy?

            That would make me happy everyday, but I guess you may not like those things for some reason.

            IDK Buddhism just seems kinda pathetic to me. It's like training to use mental techniques to neuter your sense of self so that you can no longer perceive the suffering. It's like someone who has to eat shit everyday finds some way to train their tongue to not taste and their nose to not smell. Good for them, they've found a decent loophole to make existence more tolerable, but at the end of the day THEY'RE STILL EATING SHIT.

            I see your method (Buddhist Method) of attaining happiness or escaping suffering, as convoluted and illogical. You are training yourself to ignore and accept, rather than overcome and attain.

            I'd much rather have than train myself to be ok with not having. The path of having and attaining is much more straight forward and logical than the path of training your mind to being ok with not having and losing.

            1/2

            >>All this effort to forcefully train your mind into inducing a state of happiness sounds moronic. If you had millions of dollars you could live a comfy effortless free life of travel, good food and women, wouldn't that also make you happy?

            you're contradicting yourself

            >kid when you try to make an analogy, at least try to make something logical and applicable.
            It is, you are just too indoctrinated to see how low value and pointless your goal is.

            > the conditioning and tuning of the endocrine system is very much a good and proper outcome of practice, and when one's endocrine system is highly functioning, one is invariably happy
            So you are becoming a druggie with extra effort and extra steps. Just buy weed and smoke it daily, it will have the same effect and you won't have to meditate for a decade or more to get that lol. I don't smoke or drink btw, I don't use any drugs, but it's still an option for some people.

            All this effort to forcefully train your mind into inducing a state of happiness sounds moronic. If you had millions of dollars you could live a comfy effortless free life of travel, good food and women, wouldn't that also make you happy?

            That would make me happy everyday, but I guess you may not like those things for some reason.

            IDK Buddhism just seems kinda pathetic to me. It's like training to use mental techniques to neuter your sense of self so that you can no longer perceive the suffering. It's like someone who has to eat shit everyday finds some way to train their tongue to not taste and their nose to not smell. Good for them, they've found a decent loophole to make existence more tolerable, but at the end of the day THEY'RE STILL EATING SHIT.

            I see your method (Buddhist Method) of attaining happiness or escaping suffering, as convoluted and illogical. You are training yourself to ignore and accept, rather than overcome and attain.

            I'd much rather have than train myself to be ok with not having. The path of having and attaining is much more straight forward and logical than the path of training your mind to being ok with not having and losing.

            1/2

            >>I see your method (Buddhist Method) of attaining happiness or escaping suffering, as convoluted and illogical. You are training yourself to ignore and accept, rather than overcome and attain.
            also it's the opposite. buddhist don't ignore reality since they acknowledge hedonism is flawed.
            and why would happiness depend on external things like having a prostitute at home?

            >>The reason why Siddhartha Gautama was able to become Buddha is because of the quality of life he experienced BEFORE he became Buddha.
            it's because he got insights into the real nature of the aggregates

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >it's because he got insights into the real nature of the aggregates
            this
            its funny because its like saying you need to become a coomer in order to really appreciate and enjoy sex
            when fact of the matter is that being a coomer destroys your ability to have sex

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >this
            False, see here

            >in my day we had sex, kid. I've gotten laid 6000, 7000 times, akshual number high enough to be impossible to say with accuracy
            Lol, you are making the troll too obvious.

            [...]
            >You literally live like a king compared to the people 2000 years ago.
            1. My desire is not to "move beyond materialism", don't confuse my argument and don't project. My point was that for the people THAT WANT TO do that, it would be way easier for them to do so if they "had their fill".

            2. Kings got to frick harems of women, where are all of my b***hes, I've only had like 3? lol. I haven't had my fill of sex yet, not even close, especially when compared to Buddha. But once again, I don't have the goal of "moving beyond materialism", I don't have the same beliefs or views as you guys do.

            [...]
            >you're contradicting yourself
            There is no contradiction, there is more than one path to happiness. Having all of the things millions of dollars would afford you would make you happy, and once you've enjoyed it for enough years it will become "normal" to you, and that will make it easier to give up IF you wanted to do so because your beliefs started to change (just like Buddha who spent years enjoying the life of a prince with harems, etc, and had his fill after years of it becoming "normal" to him).

            >why would happiness depend on external things like having a prostitute at home?
            There's more than one way to attain happiness, depends on what makes you happy and depends on what stage of life you are in. Having a prostitute at home will make most young virile men in their 20's very happy, and the why is obvious, the why is biology.

            >it's because he got insights into the real nature of the aggregates
            You keep coping and telling yourself that. It's mostly because he "had his fill", there was no FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) pulling him back in, nobody for him to be jealous of (writings ay he was both tall and handsome), etc.

            He was born at top of the food chain.

            >its funny because its like saying you need to become a coomer in order to really appreciate and enjoy sex
            You are either an extremely dishonest person, or an extremely stupid person, because your comparison is false and doesn't fit anything I said.

            My logic and statement is that you need to have sex with a lot of women in order for it to become something that feels "normal" to you. There is nothing that I said that would make masturbation even become part of the equation. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn't read properly but I won't do that today, because I was very clear in what I said and meant.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >My logic and statement is that you need to have sex with a lot of women in order for it to become something that feels "normal" to you
            lol straight up incel

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >lol straight up incel
            Lol, when your responses become short dismissals like this, I know that you feel defeated and have given up. We can end it here, I hope you learned to think critically today. Buddha became Buddha because he was just born luckier than you, his story is not a story of effort, it's a story of priviledge leading to enlightenment.

            You guys just don't like that truth because of how disheartening it is. But hey, think of it as just another mental trial for you to overcome 😉

            Visualize Buddha as the Siddhartha Gautama, the tall handsome wealthy prince with a harem, and meditate on that reality, and use it as a tool to overcome things like jealously and hate lol.

            You see, I'm really just helping you guys right now XD.

            you ignorant boomers deserve to be trolled for your insolence
            makes it all the more funny cuz its true

            The only ignorant ones here are you guys lol.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >, I hope you learned to think critically today. Buddha became Buddha because he was just born luckier than you, his story is not a story of effort, it's a story of priviledge leading to enlightenment.
            Why wasnt he enlightened when he was rich?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Why wasnt he enlightened when he was rich?
            You need to take that question to the Buddhists. I'm just making arguments based on their framework and perspective that enlightenment can only be attained by avoiding materialism. I don't hold such beliefs, and I honestly think most people saying they are enlightened are doing so based on personal feelings and they have no objective and measurable criteria to gauge whether or not they are truly enlightened.

            "Enlightenment" is just a badge and anyone can slap onto themselves and wear proudly for no reason. I am not pursuing something as vague and illusory as enlightenment. It's like a dog chasing it's tail, everybody thinks their definition is correct and that they are path towards it (or have already attained it).

            >My point was that for the people THAT WANT TO do that, it would be way easier for them to do so if they "had their fill".
            Some people have everything they ever wanted but still don't feel happy. The question is how many of them throw it all away instead of trying to get more money/women/whatever. I mostly see the latter in real life. Or maybe that's not true, I haven't looked at any statistics.
            In other words, your dopamine receptors always want more. They rebel if you remove stimulation, even if that stimulation feels normal. If you get bored of women you try to find something more existing until that becomes boring too etc.

            >Some people have everything they ever wanted but still don't feel happy.
            Those are the exception to the rule. Take the average starving person in a poor country, drop them in a country with resources and opportunities, and they will think of that country as the best place ever and value it greatly. They will be way happier than they were before. There's a reason why tons of people risk their life to cross the border to get into America, but nobody is doing the same to get into India, a place that should be the source of enlightenment and happiness. Yet it's a place of extreme poverty and destitution, to the point that there are memes of people shitting in streets, and their fricking train tracks are literally getting fricked up (corrosion and degradation) from shit (google it, it's true). India is also known as the rape capital of the planet (for good reason, we all know the stats and stories of tourists and even local women and girls).

            Happiness is definitely connected to prosperity, and prosperity is connected to resources.

            I don't care if the lead singer of Linkin Park killed himself despite being rich and having loving fans, If I or most people got his money, we'd live amazing lives.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            is definitely connected to prosperity, and prosperity is connected to resources.
            okay so Happiness is definitely connected to something which doesnt depend on you, so it's inherently unstable
            I hope you don't whine when those things are taken away which removes this Happiness that you love so much.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >okay so Happiness is definitely connected to something which doesnt depend on you
            Everything doesn't depend on you. If I go up to an enlightened happy Buddhist, tie him down to a chair, and rape one of his family members in front of him, will his happiness remain in that moment?

            I was going to go with an example of me beating him up but you seem like the dishonest/delusion type that will argue that he'll retain tranquility and happiness even whilst being beaten to death. So I went the extra mile and went straight for the core, people we care about 😉

            All happiness can be taken away from you by another persons actions, you lack imagination or self awareness if you can't realize that.

            You do realize that Buddhists can only exist because people give donations right?

            So their ability to practice and pursue happiness is as you say "inherently unstable", because they DEPEND on donations in order to do this.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >There's a reason why tons of people risk their life to cross the border to get into America, but nobody is doing the same to get into India
            That kinda proves my point. It's unlikely that somebody throws their comfy life away to become enlightened like the Buddha did. So that doesn't give the average person a handicap.
            >But again, you have to WANT to stop in order for it to really be enough. You might be thinking of people who see no reason to stop and don't want to stop, and then saying - "look, they've had they fill and still won't stop". That's a false comparison.
            I'd like to think that the average person isn't riddled with that much regret and fomo. Okay, you might not become a billionaire and get a harem, but do you really lose sleep over that? Maybe you like your current life. I would certainly take the money if somebody offered it to me but I'm not suicidal because it hasn't happened yet and probably never will.
            Now you're in the same place as the super rich person who has done everything who also doesn't lose sleep over the fact that they can't control the entire world or can't frick every woman on the planet or live on a futuristic space station.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >I'd like to think that the average person isn't riddled with that much regret and fomo.
            In this social media era where you can tap a button and watch people travel around the world and live amazing lives? really?

            This era is the FOMO apocalypse. It's a good thing I don't use social media or else I'd be depressed as hell.

            I just keep to myself and focus on my goals. I know what I want out of life, but I'd definitely be a lot more obsessed if I used social media often, especially Instagram.

            >Okay, you might not become a billionaire and get a harem, but do you really lose sleep over that?
            Don't need to be a billionaire or get a harem, just need to get atleast a decent amount to feel satisfied. Do you know that stats show that the average man will only have around 8 sex partners in a lifetime, and that was for a few years before, it's likely lower now with how unbalanced things are between men and women today. I'm already at 3 and I have decades of life left, what sounds satisfactory about that?

            >Maybe you like your current life.
            >I would certainly take the money if somebody offered it to me but I'm not suicidal because it hasn't happened yet and probably never will.
            I think a lot of people conflate being content with life and being afraid of death, with actually liking their life, and only people who are honest with themselves and are introspective will see the difference.

            A lot of people are honestly only alive because they are afraid of the alternative (death). A lot of people live empty miserable and forced existences, and in some cases it's for the sake of others (they have children and I only surviving to give them a better life).

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            no such thing as spiritual welfare my guy, one either puts in the time cultivating or one realizes nothing

            >Why wasnt he enlightened when he was rich?
            You need to take that question to the Buddhists. I'm just making arguments based on their framework and perspective that enlightenment can only be attained by avoiding materialism. I don't hold such beliefs, and I honestly think most people saying they are enlightened are doing so based on personal feelings and they have no objective and measurable criteria to gauge whether or not they are truly enlightened.

            "Enlightenment" is just a badge and anyone can slap onto themselves and wear proudly for no reason. I am not pursuing something as vague and illusory as enlightenment. It's like a dog chasing it's tail, everybody thinks their definition is correct and that they are path towards it (or have already attained it).

            [...]
            >Some people have everything they ever wanted but still don't feel happy.
            Those are the exception to the rule. Take the average starving person in a poor country, drop them in a country with resources and opportunities, and they will think of that country as the best place ever and value it greatly. They will be way happier than they were before. There's a reason why tons of people risk their life to cross the border to get into America, but nobody is doing the same to get into India, a place that should be the source of enlightenment and happiness. Yet it's a place of extreme poverty and destitution, to the point that there are memes of people shitting in streets, and their fricking train tracks are literally getting fricked up (corrosion and degradation) from shit (google it, it's true). India is also known as the rape capital of the planet (for good reason, we all know the stats and stories of tourists and even local women and girls).

            Happiness is definitely connected to prosperity, and prosperity is connected to resources.

            I don't care if the lead singer of Linkin Park killed himself despite being rich and having loving fans, If I or most people got his money, we'd live amazing lives.

            nice punt
            >and they have no objective and measurable criteria to gauge whether or not they are truly enlightened
            it sorta takes one to know one
            siddhis dont cut it

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >his story is not a story of effort
            this is among the more moronic things ever written on /x/

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >this is among the more moronic things ever written on /x/
            It's funny how responses like this never elaborate on why the other person is wrong, you just state they are wrong with no explanation, as if that doesn't make you look even less credible than the person who you disagree with that actually gave their own explanation.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            What you are effectively saying is that the pinnacle of human achievement requires no effort. Do I need to elaborate on how moronic that is? Nah, I dont.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >What you are effectively saying is that the pinnacle of human achievement requires no effort
            Who said anything about "human achievement"?

            No, what I'm saying is that being at the pinnacle of manhood requires no achievement, it only requires luck. If you are born into a wealthy household, and born with genetics that makes you tall, intelligent and handsome, you are already at the top of the food chain in human society among men, just by being born. Your life is going to be amazing by default, a golden road already laid out before you, you just need to start walking.

            If Siddhartha Gautama had never become Buddha, he'd still have lived a life that dwarfed 99% of other men's lives, he'd still be in the top layers of the food chain.

            I hope you don't think I'm saying he's "the best of the best", I'm just saying that he's in the top echelon. He's at the peak of manhood just on his genetics alone, and his wealth and royal blood only pushed him even higher from being in the Top 1% to like the Top 0.1%.

            Life isn't this fair thing where achievements even matter. Do you think all the other tall handsome princes born in his era gave a frick about what he did? lol.

            The achievements of the Zebra are of no concern to the Lion, they will always be beneath the Lion regardless of their achievements, because the Lion was born a Lion, and the Zebra was born a Zebra.

            No life is equal. We can only cope with such thoughts in the modern era where balance is being artificially enforced, and even with that there is still huge imbalance.

            >Do I need to elaborate on how moronic that is? Nah, I dont.
            I agree, you don't need to elaborate on your strawman argument of shit I never said lol.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >achieving enlightenment isnt even an achievement
            lmao get the frick out of this thread, you have nothing to offer it

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >lmao get the frick out of this thread, you have nothing to offer it
            >When you have to keep making strawman arguments because you can't find a problem with anything they said
            Anybody can read my post and see that I clearly didn't say that. You are arguing points I never made lol.

            I literally said:

            >What you are effectively saying is that the pinnacle of human achievement requires no effort
            Who said anything about "human achievement"?

            No, what I'm saying is that being at the pinnacle of manhood requires no achievement, it only requires luck. If you are born into a wealthy household, and born with genetics that makes you tall, intelligent and handsome, you are already at the top of the food chain in human society among men, just by being born. Your life is going to be amazing by default, a golden road already laid out before you, you just need to start walking.

            If Siddhartha Gautama had never become Buddha, he'd still have lived a life that dwarfed 99% of other men's lives, he'd still be in the top layers of the food chain.

            I hope you don't think I'm saying he's "the best of the best", I'm just saying that he's in the top echelon. He's at the peak of manhood just on his genetics alone, and his wealth and royal blood only pushed him even higher from being in the Top 1% to like the Top 0.1%.

            Life isn't this fair thing where achievements even matter. Do you think all the other tall handsome princes born in his era gave a frick about what he did? lol.

            The achievements of the Zebra are of no concern to the Lion, they will always be beneath the Lion regardless of their achievements, because the Lion was born a Lion, and the Zebra was born a Zebra.

            No life is equal. We can only cope with such thoughts in the modern era where balance is being artificially enforced, and even with that there is still huge imbalance.

            >Do I need to elaborate on how moronic that is? Nah, I dont.
            I agree, you don't need to elaborate on your strawman argument of shit I never said lol.

            >Who said anything about "human achievement"?

            I was never talking about achievement, it's just you talking about that by yourself and trying to rope me into your conversation.

            you were also saying enlightenment isnt the pinnacle of human achievement
            fully enlightened is beyond human
            anything short is not the full achievement
            you simply have no clue about what you're talking about, none at all whatsoever
            >I agree, you don't need to elaborate on your strawman argument of shit I never said lol.
            I gave you the meaning of the words you dont understand and what the implications of your entirely ignorant statements are. you're too clueless to perceive this also.

            >you were also saying enlightenment isnt the pinnacle of human achievement
            I never said anything about achievement, I did not even use the word achievement in any of my posts until that other guy said I said something about achievement lol, and even then I'm consistently saying that achievement has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

            Achievement is a non-factor to the discussion I am having, you guys are arguing with a strawman. Were not having the same conversation here.

            I was never having a conversation about what is the pinnacle of human achievement, what is considered an achievement, etc. That's the conversation you guys need to have between yourselves, unless you are the same person making multiple responses, in that case, talk to yourself.

            Address specifically the things that I said, no interpretation or strawmanning, what I said exactly. Or don't address me at all.

            Actually, this is my last post. Good luck having imaginary arguments against things I've never said. I've already said everything I need to say, it's up to you to read it and actually address it and not shit you made up.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >his story is not a story of effort,
            its good you decided to leave, you're digging yourself deeper and deeper
            with effort comes achievement, if things are done properly
            instead you introduce a handful of logical fallacies, throw a fit, and announce your departure
            juveniles

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            you were also saying enlightenment isnt the pinnacle of human achievement
            fully enlightened is beyond human
            anything short is not the full achievement
            you simply have no clue about what you're talking about, none at all whatsoever
            >I agree, you don't need to elaborate on your strawman argument of shit I never said lol.
            I gave you the meaning of the words you dont understand and what the implications of your entirely ignorant statements are. you're too clueless to perceive this also.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            That's what racism does to your brain, by the way, racimls are the fruit of materialist thinking.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >pinnacle of manhood
            depends on what you clarify as "manhood". An unbelievably vague term with only subjective criteria that could used to define this term.

            >Who said anything about "human achievement"?

            You explicitly stated that "Buddha became Buddha because he was just born luckier than you"

            Can you name me anything more impressive than Buddhahood? (Spoiler: You can't).

            >No, what I'm saying is that being at the pinnacle of manhood requires no achievement

            And why is this relevant to a meditation (Buddhist-focused) thread?

            >Siddhartha Gautama had never become Buddha
            lol, lmao even. Though to clarify he wouldn't just be in the top .1%, he would be a God-Emperor as he was prophesized, prior to his birth, to becoming either a Great religious Teacher or a Chakravartin (God-King, World-Ruler)

            >Life isn't this fair thing
            No shit and good.
            >achievements even matter
            It's almost as if Buddhism acknowledges the worthlessness of worldly goals, aims, etc.

            >Do you think all the other tall handsome princes born in his era gave a frick about what he did?

            Do you think we care? And yes. Most of his early followers were Brahmins, he was treated very well by various local rulers and there's this one Ashoka guy (you may have heard of him) who was VERY fond of him (albeit several centuries later).

            >The achievements of the Zebra are of no concern to the Lion, they will always be beneath the Lion regardless of their achievements, because the Lion was born a Lion, and the Zebra was born a Zebra.

            Midwit-tier babbling posed as though its this cold-hard Darwinist truth that no one can fathom.

            >No life is equal
            On the relative level. NO SHIT. One of the biggest points preached is how shit 99% percent of rebirths are.
            On the ultimate level? Nope not even close to the truth.
            >We can only cope
            >Implying members of this thread lack the aforementioned qualities of height, wealth, etc,
            >Also implying that they feel the need to cope.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Buddha became Buddha because he was just born luckier than you, his story is not a story of effort
            you missed the part when he,by his own decision, almost starve to death.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >you missed the part when he,by his own decision, almost starve to death
            I didn't miss that point. You missed the point that he was only driven to extremes of asceticism because he'd already enjoyed the extremes of abundance. When you are already at the top, the only unexplored direction you can go is down. His thinking was probably very radical for his time, and he could only get to that mindframe because he was in the right place at the right time, with the right genetics, and the right wealth, to give him the right experiences that shaped his thoughts, desires, goals, etc.

            There's a domino effect, a chain reaction of circumstances and events that shaped who he is, in the same way that it happens to all of us. Of course personal choice does matter, but your circumstances and experiences determine what choices you are statistically more likely to choose. It's all about probability and whether or not you are even in the position to make certain choices.

            All accounts I've read so far said that Buddha was tall and handsome. Maybe those are lies but lets assume they are the truth. You don't think that helped with him getting followers? you don't think there's a human factor to all of this?, who people respect and why they respect them on an animalistic level?

            Imagine if Buddha wasn't a tall handsome prince, but was instead a short ugly farmer. Do you think Buddhism would have taken off?, Do you think that most people would see it as him "coping" because he doesn't have the option to live in abundance anyways?, etc.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Once you try heroin it wont be as tempting anymore for your meditation practice, believe me!! Try heroin and then overcome it, it will probably never be a massive demon trying to seduce you every waking and sleeping hour!!
            >inb4 sex is not heroin
            Its all pleasure. Being able to simply say no and get it over with is OP and necessary. Not total indulgence because total indulgence means you are old and die, its over now.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Its all pleasure.
            No it's not all pleasure, if Buddha had become a heroine or crack addict he likely would have never become Buddha lol.

            You are comparing apples and oranges the size of a water melon. Heroine causes an extreme addiction because of how strong it is and because it's artificial and foreign to the body.

            The pleasure produced from sexual stimuli is natural to the body and isn't anywhere near as extreme.

            You are grasping for straws right now.

            Well, I've spent enough time in this thread, time go eat. You guys keep coping.

  22. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >What do you think is the best to reach the first Jhana and the four stages of enlightenment?
    anapanasati
    a shit ton of it
    a few sessions every day
    earlier in the day can be shorter, but get a long one in at the end of the day
    proper habit well ingrained is what gets you there
    the most direct way is through conquering the breath
    the most solid way is through conquering the breath
    the most repeatable way that brings daily occurrences of jhana is through conquering the breath
    the way to recognize that sense inputs directly drive an energy remainder in the niwan that is responsible for the arising of random thoughts is through eliminating the turbulence of breath entirely

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      olfactory anon nails it again.
      Learn to conquer your body by becoming a master at relaxing your muscles and slowing down your breath and making it deeper.
      This reduces the overthinking mind by a ton.

  23. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I'm going to escape.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous
  24. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    What about the arhats? They weren't wealthy princes, so you can't argue they were all just bored of material pleasures. They came from various backgrounds; some noble, some high caste, some low.

  25. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Why don't you homosexuals actually try the techniques rather than constant speculation

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Sitting for 1-2 hours per day is too tiresome, arguing with anons on EerieWeb is much more fun and feeds muh ego.

      But yeah, just shut up guys and go sit.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        When i started to get interested in meditation years ago i had this problem, couldn't sit still for more than 10 minutes cause it was setting my ass on fire and consuming all my mental energy at the same time. But after i went deeper into the buddhist model and started practicing with technique it became much more bearable, even enjoyable. When you get to the point where you start experiencing the jhanas meditation can even become addictive, specially when consistency with these experiences starts to form, sitting for hours isn't a chore anymore, the opposite.

        I feel like most people get stuck in the phase where they don't have a clear idea about what meditation is or how to practice it and never get past it.

  26. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I started meditating around 3 weeks ago. (done lucid dreaming/manifesting things before but never meditation like this)

    Two weeks ago I started shaking/trembling and my limbs and body started acting on its own. Its hard to describe, basicly shaking and feeling like energy is moving around. This also happens if I lay down outside of meditaton.

    Anyone else that have had this happen to them?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >I started meditating around 3 weeks ago.
      what kind of meditation

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        I do wimhof + Joe dispenza guided meditaiton, around 1hour in total.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          idk who those ppl are, the buddhist answer is that those phenomenon are irrelevant and so just to keep doing metta and mindfulness. This kind of stuff disappear after a while, especially as you get better at meditation.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          wim hof is piecemeal tummo which is piecemeal tibetan stuff, too much extreme cold exposure will harm the kidneys and adrenals. always finish any energy moving stuff with copious amounts of stillness meditation
          never heard of Joe but it appears to be introducing the concept of paying attention while doing things as a segue to paying attention while seated
          if it works
          but better off go draw a warm bath and lay back in it with the water against your eardrums, learn how to breath completely silently, and then work on bringing that to seated meditation

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            I dont do the cold water wim hoff stuff, only the breath work.

  27. 1 week ago
    Inversion

    > You don't need shoes for walking.
    Mindfulness meditation is about to detach your spiritual self from your physical self and became an observer. By doing so it's easier to kill the Ego or ignore any suffering that the body or mind experience it right now.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Mindfulness meditation is about to detach your spiritual self from your physical self and became an observer.
      this is some purity spiral perversion
      cultivation is about integrating the body and spirit
      the achievement comes from the merging
      but not only that

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