Left-Hand Path Buddhism

This would seem to go against the Buddhist idea that all things are illusionary, ever changing conglomerates, but Is there a Buddhist path that leads the the preservation of one’s self?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Inversion

    Taking refuge in the dharma is already the sacrifice that kill the self.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Buddhist path that leads the the preservation of one’s self?

      there's no self in the first place

      • 4 weeks ago
        Inversion

        > there's no self in the first place
        That the wisdom that you achieve after enlightenment not before. If you do before it's only auto-suggestion. (self hypnosis)
        > self
        It's ignorance, but that ignorance is know as such only after the enlightenment too.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Realization of no self is the first stage of awakening...

          • 4 weeks ago
            Inversion

            The flame thing is only awakening no enlightenment? How do you even meditate in an non-dual mind?

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Question & Answer #92: from Schopenhauer vs. Nietzsche to the Left-Hand Path

    Questions include: my preference of Schopenhauer or Nietzsche; the kingdom of Kosala; mythological Buddhas; translating the Tipitaka into Latin or Greek; self-immolation as a new western fad; regret as an unskillful mental state; the significance of the number 84000 in Indian Buddhism; Christian Platonism; Marvel superheroes as pagan gods; daydreaming; the religion of Malcolm X; possible contradictions of the “five element model of Buddhism”; whether becoming a secular king is allowed by Buddhist monastic discipline; translations of the word “dukkha”; fapping novices; Buddhist logic in the Atthakavagga; memory as viewing the past; samsaric context; my favorite wisdom literature; advice for a meditation retreat; changes in my physiology since leaving the monkhood; understanding Mara, the Buddhist devil; killing bugs; are insects conscious; vipassana and/or jhana; my favorite Buddhist literature; and the validity of the left-hand path.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >is there a Buddhist path that leads to the preservation of one's self?
    No because preservation of one self is the opposite goal of Buddhism
    Buddhist is the school of eliminating ones immortal soul that is constantly being reborn for trial and once the immortal coil of being reborn is destroyed, the only possible after-life is to dissolve and aqueous back into all that is, no longer being separate from the universe. Buddhism is centered around the idea that to live is to suffer and learn from the suffering and to escape suffering. Buddhism is one spiritual school among millions. Buddhism is thought to be baloney by many OTHER schools of spiritual practice. your question sounds like you thought Buddhism is spirituality. Buddhism is not spirituality, it is one school of thought among millions

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      why would you want to fuse with the universe which is illusory

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >have a nice day
      When people expand far beyond the individual self it becomes pointless to identify as a person, if not outright deceitful towards those who could understand better.
      Teachers and highly self realized people wish to communicate they are far more than the body-mind, often outright deying individuality. The same people also deny or give a heavy discount to all what you could call as real.

      After expanding the individual is still there, observing what happens holding more power than before, yet often remains in a surrendered/flow state not choosing to come out as an individual through personal preferences.
      Fear talks about annihilation of the person, of course it does.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    there are buddhist/buddhist adjacent paths that embrace your selfhood, yes
    you are still in service, but it is you that is in service...
    afaik anyway
    though from what im able to gather about what im aligned with, there's a lot of self minimization (to serve others) and self aggrandizing (to impose self, as informed by the needs of others, and ones own creative potential)

    wtf would we even be doing here if no one had a self
    your own nature will exist regardless

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Whoever he is, he is beyond being, non-being, being and non-being, and neither being nor non-being.
    This is where Buddhism ends the subject and focuses on the end of suffering.
    Also, don't confuse the non-existence of the Atman with the existence of the person.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Left hand path and Buddhism have completely opposite goals, negative polarity vs positive polarity, power over others vs enlightenment.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      power over others comes with enlightenment but people dont abuse that power they wait until the proper time or they use it in such a way that they are not readily identifiable as the ones to use it (how could you identify them as they dont have a self)

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Steps of enlightenment weaken the false self, when that happens you come out more. If you truly care about yourself then start working for the steps.
    If you care about the false self that holds all of your fears and traumas then left hand path is for you, take power from others to hopefully feel safe.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Inversion

      You can't defeat fear using fear, it's a bind to the illusion.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    There are only two polarities, two possible directions in our universe. On human level that looks like either going with the ego or against it.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    I'm still practicing the correct view of Anatta, but it takes practice, as the Atman always arises.
    "So what am I?" Whatever you are, as analysis and investigation shows us, you are not the Atman, since it doesn't exist, and it doesn't exist because it violates laws, such as the law of conditionality and co-dependence.
    Just as you can attest to its existence, you can also attest to its non-existence by not finding it anywhere in your mind or body.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    True Buddhism is unknowable. The scratches left by monkeys on bits of plants is meaningless.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >>True Buddhism is unknowable
      there's no true and false buddhism to begin with. and the buddha managed to make his teaching known to plenty of people

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Inversion

    [...]

    From an external / physical point of view : Yes
    From the inside / spiritual point of view : No, you'll be exploring higher level of consciousness, this is Salvation or Moksha.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >From an external / physical point of view : Yes
      No. Apart from some occultists no one says this.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Inversion

        > Staying in lotus position all day and meditating
        It look passive and trapped in the mind.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >>It look passive and trapped in the mind.
          that's the opposite
          it's hedonists who are passive wrt to sensual inputs and that re ensnared by the mind

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    That's what the ego says, the opposite is true. Without the hateful ego your soul essence, that you are as an individual, can fully come into the body. The happiest most fulfilling moments of your life are the most You and the least egoic.
    You exist without the ego, the ego doesn't exist without out you. It is not what you are and you can never be it.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I wouldn't say the aim of the LHP is preservation of the self but refinement of the self, and while Buddhism teaches that there really are no such thing it's practices in practical terms do just that. Paradoxical? Yes, that is to be expected in every turn when speaking of magic and spirituality. Nor would I say preservation of the self would be opposite to Buddhist path since according to Buddhism there are no self to be preserved in the first place. Instead I'd say Theravada school is kinda left-handish comparing to Mahayana for the aim is the liberation of ones own "self" while Mahayana school is more right-handish for the aim is to liberate everybody. Or I could argue that Vajrayana is more of LHP sort because it has much to do with spells, divination, icons, physical objects, visualizations etc. And besides all that to me Buddhism as a whole the Left hand path comparing to Bhakti yoga.
    I'm speaking here the Left hand path as a spiritual path. Prostituting sacred sciences for selfish petty gains have none to do with spirit and isn't a path of any kind.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >it's practices in practical terms do just that.
      huh no, the entirety of the practice is precisely brute forcing right view on sense inputs by doing mindfulness and then thinking really hard about the 4 truths inside the jhanas, precisely to counter the natural tendencies to get infatuated with the jhanic pleasures and missing out on the insights to stop cravings and putting an end to rebirths.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And this refines ones character in the proces even if its not the point. You can't put an end to reincarnation as you are but must develop yourself even if there are no self, and LHP is all about self-develepment. Its very different than devotional practice, i.e the Right hand path.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, now compare this to signing and dancing praises to Krshna.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Inversion

      > Vajrayanna
      > any religion
      is mostly a plato's cave allegory. You create a fictional world that you live in and a fictional perfect entity that live outside of it, then you practice to becoming his son send on Earth then you make one with the Father to transcend the fictional world where you were trapped in.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Are you initiated?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Inversion

          I've initiated alone (Christianity + Dzogchen) then I've attained self-gnosis (synchronicity + developed intuition).

          Most of religion seems to have the same structure and reach the same goal : harmony or balance, meaning there is something more than what Hebrew, Christianity and Islam are teaching like enlightenment was more than salvation like an Initiation to something bigger.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's actually interesting. How does self-initiation to Vajrayana work?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Inversion

            Christianity and buddhism have
            > Universal Love
            > Sacrifice and Altruism
            in common.

            Dzogchen has the middle path. (it's the Masonic or alchemical path of the middle between the two pillar : Son and Moon merged.) The middle path create emptiness, the void. (This is the lacking part in the Gospel, Catholic church wants that devote attain enlightenment by blind devotion instead of actively turning off thoughts in logical brain.)

            It's Void or emptiness (sacrifice of the self) in left brain, (Dead Sea)
            and Universal Love in right brain. (Mount Sinai)

            >Mostly Revelation 8:8
            is the hemy-sync experience.
            The huge Mountain in fire (right brain) will be thrown into the dead sea (left brain) and 1/3 will be blood. (6 + 3 = 9 or Man will receive the third person the holy spirit).
            > 'The blood'
            in hebrew : Ha (Physical) + Dalet + Mem.
            > Adam
            in hebrew : Aleph (Spiritual) + Dalet + Mem.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Inversion

            Sun* not Son (typo, my bad)

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    to be precise, self or not self both are wrong view. nonetheless, the bodhissatva path preserves one contiunuum of existence in samsara until every being is liberated. tulkus are supposedly reincarnations of rinpoches who could chose where to be reborn, for example. if this is left hand path or not, i'm not in a position to determine this, maybe the folks of the great and diamond vehicles could shed some light here.

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    epic win

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Is the witness born of causes and conditions? Does the witness exist independently of its surroundings? Does the witness come into being, grow old, get sick and die?

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the witness is a stupidity introduced by the abdiharmas and then popularized even more once the brahmins in mahayana and hindusim started using it. It's pure gibberish.

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Can we attest to the existence of the witness without a world around them to express it?
    Is the witness an object?
    Is the witness a cause of pain and suffering?

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Who is asking questions about the witness, the witness himself or the objects that surround it?

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    And how can objects perceive it but do nothing about it?
    It perceives the objects and the objects perceive it, but they don't affect each other?
    Why is the witness passive and not an agent?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      + In Buddhism, the true self is an agent in reality.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >self
        >reality
        Neither are real.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How many times has the Buddha said "If this were your self, you would do this and not that, if you wished it so, it would be so since it is truly yours"?
          All things are not mine, not me and not my I.
          Wouldn't it be extreme to say that there is no one acting in reality?

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So that's what I understand.
    The truth is not to be found in:
    The self exists.
    The self does not exist
    The "I" exists and doesn't exist at the same time (sum of the extremes)
    The "I" is neither this nor that (subtraction of the extremes, denial that anything said can be true or false).

    This is where the Simile of the arrow in the eye comes in: we are studying the nature of the arrow, Buddhism is about the end of Dukkha.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Namaste

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      yep, well said.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >So that's what I understand.
      what's to be understood is dependent origination, nothing else.

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Many of you fellas don't even know what the left hand path is and it shows.
    The left hand path is liberation through destruction. It is not necessarily evil, cruel, or violent. It is also not hedonistic - it only becomes such in cases of extreme degeneration of the tradition.
    The right hand path stabilises the self and the world, allowing it to become a vessel worthy of receiving the divine energy. The left hand path destroys the self and the world, erasing all obstacles to divine energy. Moreover, this is a METHODOLOGY not an IDEOLOGY. The left hand path doesn't require you to hurt others, or to hurt everyone, but it does make use of pain for the purpose of liberation.
    The left hand path tradition in Buddhism is Vajrayana, Tibetan Buddhism - led by, you guessed it, the DALAI LAMA, renowned peace advocate. Why is Vajrayana left hand path? Because it started off as a synthesis of Buddhist doctrine and indigenous Tibetan black magic. Vajrayana is not afraid of getting its hands dirty and grappling with darkness, but this does not make Vajrayana evil or callously egotistic.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The left hand path tradition in Buddhism is Vajrayana, Tibetan Buddhism - led by, you guessed it, the DALAI LAMA, renowned peace advocate. Why is Vajrayana left hand path? Because it started off as a synthesis of Buddhist doctrine and indigenous Tibetan black magic. Vajrayana is not afraid of getting its hands dirty and grappling with darkness, but this does not make Vajrayana evil or callously egotistic.
      Vajaryana is sterile because it advocates for wrong views. Only the buddha's teaching leads to full liberation and vajayana is not it.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You don't know better than the five gorillion Vajrayana gurus, anon. Who do you think transmitted the Dharma to those guys in the first place?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Some diseased bawd?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's actually Makima from Chainsawman. Or are you implying that a "diseased bawd" taught Buddhism to the founders of the Vajrayana tradition? That seems like a strange thing to say.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It does seem like a strange thing to say

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think this is wisely put.

      There is also some surprisingly great variation in the various Buddhist schools and their teaching methods, metaphors, terminology, conceptions, and ‘skillful means’ (upaya) used. Some of them speak of concepts like the Buddha-nature, the embryo of Buddha-nature in oneself (tathagatagarbha), the One Mind of Buddhahood pervading all, and so on. Almost like a nontheistic or transtheistic Vedanta (note: the latter doesn’t mean that God is trans, but referring to an interesting tendency in some Eastern mysticism that has concepts that would transcend even the notion of a ‘God’ we would have, positing something even deeper and more fundamental behind it, which Taoism also arguably is).

      In Vajrayana, some of the teachings speak of finding the indestructible vajra-like nature within oneself. Vajra is both ‘diamond’ (also translated adamantine, referring simultaneously to the qualities of crystal-clearness or absolute lucidity of consciousness, and indestructibility, impenetrability) as well as ‘thunderbolt’ (symbolically referring to an irresistible force, as well as to the supposed lightning-fast accelerated journey towards liberation through Tantra,

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Cut off my post…

        as well as ‘thunderbolt’ (symbolically referring to an irresistible force, as well as to the supposed lightning-fast accelerated journey towards liberation through Tantra, as well as perhaps even to the symbolic concept of illumination). They still have teachings on shunyata (emptiness) and Nairātmyā (“selflessness, no-self”), but it’s still the closest thing you’ll find to “left-hand Buddhism.”

        The whole idea of the “left-hand path” is itself taken from the Tantric terms Vamamarga or Vamacara, applied in both Tantric Hinduism and Tantric Buddhism. As that other poster intelligently notes, this is not about glorification of evil/sim for evil’s sake, as some corrupted Western occultists seem to have taken it as. The law of karma still applies in these teachings.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sexually transmitted dharma
    STDs
    Cracking this case wide open

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatt%C4%81#Current_disputes

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Thanissaro Bhikkhu points to the Ananda Sutta (SN 44.10), where the Buddha stays silent when asked whether there is a 'self' or not,[61] as a major cause of the dispute.[62]
      Exactly!

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I came up with this idea that the "I" would be the most desired object in the universe, in fact it is the only "observable" thing that "pervades" reality, but at the same time we desire it as if it would give us the most absolute control over reality, it's a mental illness (kilesa), it's like coveting something you already have, which is yourself, like a dog chasing its tail or trying to bite the water that comes out of the hose thinking it's solid.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Thanissaro Bhikkhu points to the Ananda Sutta (SN 44.10), where the Buddha stays silent when asked whether there is a 'self' or not,[61] as a major cause of the dispute.[62]
      Exactly!

      Why do hindus not read the explanation given by the buddha himself when he talked to this non-monk?

      Look, the buddha's observation is that there is nothing worth calling a self in any realm of life, ie the formless realm is devoid of anything worth calling self, same for the form realm same for the desire realm. No matter what happens in those realms, there is no self in those.
      Outside of that, there is nibanna and that's not the self again.

      So if there is indeed some ontological self, then it is outside 1/ nibanna, 2/ any realm containing life.

      If there is this self, you can't influence it and it doesnt influence you. At this point the self is completely useless.
      And even worse, the self, the knowledge about the self, being influenced by the self or even influencing the self are not needed to end suffering. So the self is at best an intellectual craving, and it's not even required to reach the buddhist goal.

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    sigh

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    from what I am reading here, a left hand path idea of buddhism would be to accept the nonexistence of self, yet attempt to create one with which to reject the current dichotomy

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Buddhism already is essentially the Satanism of the hindoo tradition

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