Is the Holy Trinity even mentioned in the bible? Why is it necessary for Christians to believe it?

Is the Holy Trinity even mentioned in the bible?

Why is it necessary for Christians to believe it?

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  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    No, it’s a fourth century fiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      the Word was with God and the Word was God

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        The logos is the order in creation, Jesus is only the logos in the sense that his will is aligned with God.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          This is what I've always believed but most Christians would say it's heresy of the highest order. God having a son makes no sense to me and never will. Catholicism is idol worship, no?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            > Catholicism is idol worship, no?
            Yeah, and most of Protestantism is still semi-Catholic

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Outside of the Church of the East, Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox, all western Christianity developed from the Catholic philosophy. Basically, they are focused on concepts developed from philosophy and orders like Benedictine or Jesuit Philosophy.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            That’s why it will take time to purify Protestantism.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Even Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Yep, indirectly. A lot of the concepts of their rejections of things like the Trinity and the idea of even reading the Bible literally only make sense in light of the Catholic tradition and Reformation.Figures like Erasmus and Luther developed ideas of persona faith from Aquinas as did the view indirectly that the plain text reading would make sense. Pic is a book that lays out how those ways of reading and modernity have origins in these earlier views. It is part of the reason why Eastern, Oriental and Church of the East have hermeneutics that seemingly are really weird to the English speaking Christian world.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Don't forget the Ethiopian and Coptic church.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Those are part of the Oriental Orthodox Communion along with the Armenian Orthodox and the Syraic Orthodox Churches. Some of them are are closer to each other in terms of training than others. Others are closer to Eastern Orthodox in churches like the Syraic Orthodox and Antiochian Orthodox Churches.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            No, it’s a fourth century fiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

            https://i.imgur.com/sqUovmZ.jpeg

            Is the Holy Trinity even mentioned in the bible?

            Why is it necessary for Christians to believe it?

            I've been wondering this for a while now having sort of subconsciously believing in the trinity but not completely understanding it and wanting to imagine Christianity without it. If the trinity isn't real, what does that make Jesus? Is he just some prophet?

            Here's how far I've gotten.
            Prior to the Council of Nicaea, Christianity was very different. Eat my body and drink my blood, and you will know eternal life. Born of a virgin, like a plant that sprouted from no seed. After death he was planted in the ground (the quickening) and grew to life again. They used the Tau cross back then, by the way.
            The Council was a retcon of the remnants of the original spiritual practice, which heavily resembled the Eleusinian Mysteries. By that, I mean... the eucharist was a literal substance that brought you to heaven and you would experience both your own death and eternal life. Because it was a psychoactive mushroom, a plant grown from a seed smaller than a mustard seed, a spore. A virgin birth. Shaped much like a Tau cross.
            The Council aimed to dispel any rumors that the old religion ever existed. By the way, in the second century people were very commonly questioning whether Jesus was ever an actual human being. Personally I think it's likely that there was both an actual human prophet AND the divine substance that was his body.
            The Father and the Son, by the way, are reflected not just here, but in Saturn and Jupiter, Cronus and Zeus (Deus), and many others. These were the deities they were familiar with. There have always been two agricultural rain gods, father and son. Son overthrows the father. Jesus brings a new covenant.

            You miss the point completely lmfao. They crucified him (not knowing it was a sacrifice, btw) because of his grand claims. “I am the Law”. King of the israelites, but also the World. He was killed explicitly because He claimed to be God. The israelites realized this threatened them, the messiah was not going to solidify their position but take it away (“I can make sons of Abraham from the rocks”), so they killed him.

            The origin of the law is within the garden of Eden. That's the idea of the story, anyway. What did you think the "fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" represented? It is a story of mankind's discovery of law. And also probably a double entendre about eating a goddamn mushroom.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        L O G O S
        O
        G
        O
        S

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The word trinity is not in the Bible but the idea of the trinity is.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      No it isn’t, they try to retro fit it into the scriptures, but it isn’t there.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Andy weir plagiarized The Egg but he's still right in the end

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      when i can't count to three
      big difference between "is" and "is in"

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    There term is not there but it is frequent theme. It pops up all over the place. Traditional Christian hermeneutic identifies it as the center of soteriological history. Often it appears in the ascription of multiple actions of the essence who God is to the various persons. Below are some examples.

    1. Who raised Jesus from the dead? Well, it was God the Father (Gal 1:1; 1 Thess 1:10); it was also Jesus Himself (Jn 2:19; 10:17-18); and it was the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:11).

    . Who gave the new covenant? The Father (Jer 31:33-34); Jesus (Heb 8:1-13; 10:29; 12:24; 13:20); the Holy Spirit (Heb 10:15-17).

    3. Who sanctifies believers? The Father (1 Thess 5:23); Jesus (Heb 13:12); the Holy Spirit (1 Pet 1:2).

    4. Who is the creator? The Father (Gen 1:1; Is 44:24; Acts 17:24; Eph 3:9); Jesus (Jn 1:3; Col 1:16; Heb 1:8, 10); the Holy Spirit (Job 33:4).Job 33:4.

    5. Who indwells believers? The Father (1 Cor 3:16a; 2 Cor 6:16; 1 Jn 3:24); Jesus (Jn 6:56; Rom 8:10; Eph 3:17); the Holy Spirit (Jn 14:16-17; Rom 8:9, 11; 1 Cor 3:16b). The Bible even describes this in terms of different combinations: Father and Son (Jn 14:23); Father and Holy Spirit (Eph 2:21-22; 1 Jn 3:24); Son and Holy Spirit (Gal 4:6).

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I can't believe this comment was completelly ignored and people just continued the thread paying attention to all the worse arguments

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I can't believe this comment was completelly ignored and people just continued the thread paying attention to all the worse arguments

      Mentions of the the Father, Jesus, the Spirt don’t indicate that they form a “trinity”.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Serveral exemples of tree acting as one
        >Not a Trinity

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Steve and his uncle can “act as one”

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            So the uncle can speak trought steve at will, as if steve's mouth was his own mouth?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            God speaks through Jesus with Jesus’s cooperation as a prophet. They aren’t literally one being.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            False, Jesus is the avatar of God. If he was only a prophet his death wouldn't bear so much significance, even more significance than his teachings. His death changed something in the world, brought up a new possibility for mankind.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            This is often called the social trinity. It is a common way of talking about amongst Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Christians.

            basically, we take it for granted thoughts like "something can be more than one things" like how a werewolf can transform into a human.

            But this is an extremely hard concept to understand. Hell, people STILL don't understand the trinity well even in 2024. But in 300 AD, the Trinity was the bleeding edge of conceptual thought. We can't live in a modern society with out these type of concepts.

            The Trinity, like much of the Bible, is a manual on how to exist in a complex civilization.

            This is called material constitution. Totally, regardless of whether one believes in Christianity or the Trinity, this is a problem in philosophy. Basically, this issue is more of an issue if you hold to a substance or essence based ontology. I am not even Christian but for some reason people just find the material constitution of the Trinity as a complex issue. It gets really complex with abstract entities or processes.

            https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/material-constitution/

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Best comment in the thread so far

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The trinity is Christian doctrine necessary for the Bible to make sense. The begetting of the Word in John makes no sense without it and neither do the prophets. Neither does acts for that matter. The trinity isn’t named but that’s because it’s a word made to describe the phenomenon. How can the Father Son and Holy Spirit all be the same God yet come from each other (the son being begotten and the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and Son) and be separate entities? The trinity is how. I recommend you read the athanasian creed.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      > The begetting of the Word in John makes no sense without it and neither do the prophets
      That’s like saying the Bible makes no sense without the Koran.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        How does this even follow? Are you mentally ill? The trinity is present in the Old Testament as well.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          > The trinity is present in the Old Testament as well.
          LMFAO no.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            keep reading

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            If you’re hinting at Genesis, the “we” is the elohim or gods. These beings, which include the logos, are under God.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            It really is all over the place. The reason why Christians include the new testament is that in some sense the new testament synthesizes those elements and arranges them. Pic describes that and some of the history of it.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      the message is we are all sons of God in the same way Jesus was
      He literally gets annoyed at people not getting it, then they murder him for it in some kind of arcane blood sacrifice

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        You miss the point completely lmfao. They crucified him (not knowing it was a sacrifice, btw) because of his grand claims. “I am the Law”. King of the israelites, but also the World. He was killed explicitly because He claimed to be God. The israelites realized this threatened them, the messiah was not going to solidify their position but take it away (“I can make sons of Abraham from the rocks”), so they killed him.

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    They hated him because he told them the truth

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      They hated him because he forgave "sin"!! Only their God, through their priesthood, could forgive sin, so Jesus claimed he was God!

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I've been wondering this for a while now having sort of subconsciously believing in the trinity but not completely understanding it and wanting to imagine Christianity without it. If the trinity isn't real, what does that make Jesus? Is he just some prophet?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Jesus is the first creation, the logos the world was created through.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      There are different ways of understanding who Jesus is. Although, a lot of his behavior in so far as we talk the New Testament makes little sense for other roles. Why be born of a virign? Why say the things identifying with the ground of reality? Why claim to sanctify people? That is really blasphemous to say. Whether the Bible is correctly read or whether he was right even if said that is kinda weird and internally goes against a lot of the narratives ascribed to God there. The general idea of the Trinity is the question who is God is answered with there prsosopon, loosely translated persons. They all have the essence of being God though. This explains the Latin model of the Trinity found in most traditional western Christian traditions.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        why is there 3 instead of 2?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Bc the father and son loved each other so much a third being was created out of that love the Holy Spirit.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Usually, the answer is that was revealed at the time. Each revelation of a person is called a Theophany. There was however a period in Judaic religion of a Bitrinitarian view. Such theophanies appear like the Spirit over the water in Genesis for example or the Burning Bush. That was before Jesus, Philo of Alexandria is an example of a more philosophical take on that. There is nothing prevented God from expressing more persons technically.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            > There is nothing prevented God from expressing more persons technically
            The quadrinity.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            There is a heterodox Russian Orthodox tradition called Sophiology, that even argued for a Fourth person, Sophia, a type of revelation of God as the Wisdom of God, a type of creaturely wisdom, It is quite heretical.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      what I understood here is that he is like an "avatar" God uses to contact with us, because otherwise we would instantly die:

  7. 1 week ago
    >>

    It says both that christ is the Word and that the Word is God

    A=B=C = trinity

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Why did Jesus pray to God and ask him if he had to be crucified?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Why do you prepare for lucid dreaming.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        It is an act of kenosis, a withdrawal of the divine nature to make the sacrificial act of the crucifixion useful.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >tasty sammich
      >tri n not Y
      > 2 sisters
      >searching for a third

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    the trinity is a logical cosequence of the stated godhood of the father, the son, and the holy spirit, and the statement that there is one god

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      this. the concept is the best fit for the information God has given us in the Bible.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      this. the concept is the best fit for the information God has given us in the Bible.

      If you think this, you are thoroughly indoctrinated.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        i do know a bit about the doctrine of the Trinity yes, and also the main alternative positions against it - the various modalisms and unitarianisms. they break down and lose balance whereas Trintarianism does not.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          > they break down and lose balance whereas Trinitarianism does not.
          What balance? If you didn’t grow up Trinitarian, you wouldn’t believe it. A fish thinks water is default.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            i didn't even grow up Christian.

            > If you didn’t grow up Trinitarian, you wouldn’t believe it.
            what was that you were saying about someone being indoctrinated? lol

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/7hT4NxG.png

            > Is the Holy Trinity even mentioned in the bible?
            Not explicitly mentioned, but hinted at:

            > in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

            > The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

            > Why is it necessary for Christians to believe it?

            Don't believe it is necessary. Belief and interpretation is between you and Christ.

            Tertullian was the first Church father to create the concept of a trinity, and it was formalized with the Nicene Creed.

            I think the concept is mostly a result of theological circlejerking and reconciling different ideas and forms of divinity found in the Bible: God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

            So a bit like string theory. As a physicist, you don't necessarily have to believe in it, but its what the best minds have converged on.

            It may have been inspired or partly based on the Triskele symbol, which predates Christianity, but supported the number three as a number of theological significance.

            Doctrine evolves, and sects split. Nicene Christianity is just the one that had won the emperors ear.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            arianism had the political power after 1st nicea all the way up to 381 or so. its true that homoousious was suggested to the emperor at nicea though, and he trusted the bishop who suggested it him. the only reason many bishops from the east were at first reluctant was due to the term being acceptable to the modalist that had been troubling them out that way.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            See, it’s political bullshit. The church that we have is just the one that got lucky.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Perhaps they got lucky for a reason. If it was all arbitrary and random it wouldn't have involved luck and good fortune.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >See, it’s political bullshit.
            humans are involved so there will be some of that. But God is also involved.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    the trinity is the introduction of meta thinking to human consciousness, extremely vital to higher end thoughts.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Care to elaborate?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        basically, we take it for granted thoughts like "something can be more than one things" like how a werewolf can transform into a human.

        But this is an extremely hard concept to understand. Hell, people STILL don't understand the trinity well even in 2024. But in 300 AD, the Trinity was the bleeding edge of conceptual thought. We can't live in a modern society with out these type of concepts.

        The Trinity, like much of the Bible, is a manual on how to exist in a complex civilization.

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Excellent vid.

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    > Is the Holy Trinity even mentioned in the bible?
    Not explicitly mentioned, but hinted at:

    > in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

    > The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

    > Why is it necessary for Christians to believe it?

    Don't believe it is necessary. Belief and interpretation is between you and Christ.

    Tertullian was the first Church father to create the concept of a trinity, and it was formalized with the Nicene Creed.

    I think the concept is mostly a result of theological circlejerking and reconciling different ideas and forms of divinity found in the Bible: God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    So a bit like string theory. As a physicist, you don't necessarily have to believe in it, but its what the best minds have converged on.

    It may have been inspired or partly based on the Triskele symbol, which predates Christianity, but supported the number three as a number of theological significance.

  12. 1 week ago
    Schizoidberg

    No. Not explicitly. And the lines used to justify it are absent from earliest surviving manuscripts.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannine_Comma

    The Rapture and Purgatory are also not mentioned in name, but there are likewise a couple of passages used to argue for the concepts.

    Long story short, early Christians had a lot of different ideas about who or what Jesus was and what that meant. People argued about who was stronger, the Father or the Son, and what if any relationship they had. There were things like Doceticm, Gnosticism, Arianism and others. Some people thought Jesus was a mortal adopted by God and raised to immortality. Some people thought the material world was created by an evil god and Jesus came to show us that the real God made us to be spiritual beings. Other people believed all sorts of other things. If you can imagine it, someone believed it. Eventually a myriad of competing ideas synthesized, compromised, and the modern mainstream Christian view won.

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    He is one.

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    > Is the Holy Trinity even mentioned in the bible?
    Yes
    > Why is it necessary for Christians to believe it?
    Because it is true

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >because it is true.
      Says you.

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