I have questions about scientology.

Why is "source"(OT3) not the highest (eg: non-dualism, EG: no separation from me and that)? WTF is higher then non-dualism? MORE non-dualism? It makes no sense.
Why is non-dualism on the chart THREE TIMES? (non-causing, source, total freedom)
Why does it stop at OT8 ("can handle primary amnesia") and not go to OT15 ("total freedom")? By their OWN LOGIC no one in scientology is fully enlightened. Was Hubbard supposed to release it but died?
Why does everything require a seminar type class to advance? Like some "get rich" class or something.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Theta(n) is but one frequency above someone who is literally asleep.

    Be a Gamma(n)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What the frick is a "thetan" what is this moronic shit?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >WHY'S NEUTRAL SPELLED WITH AN A

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The technical terminology of Electroencephalography has nothing to do with the technical terminology of Dianetics and Scientology. Here is the definition from the Technical Dictionary:

      THETAN,
      1. the living unit we call, in Scn, a thetan, that being taken from the Greek letter theta, the mathematic symbol used in Scn to indicate the source of life and life itself. (Abil Ma 1)
      2 . the awareness of awareness unit which has all potentialities but no mass, no wave-length and no location. (HCOB 3 Jul 59)
      3 . the being who is the individual and who handles and lives in the body. (HCOB 23 Apr 69)
      4 . (spirit) is described in Scn as having no mass, no wave-length, no energy and no time or location in space except by consideration or postulate. The spirit is not a thing. It is the creator of things. (FOT, p. 55)
      5 . the personality and beingness which actually is the individual and is aware of being aware and is ordinarily and normally the “person” and who the individual thinks he is. The thetan is immortal and is possessed of capabilities well in excess of those hitherto predicted for man. (Scn 8-8008, p. 9)
      6. the name given to the life source. It is the individual, the being, the personality, the knowingness of the human being. (Scn 8-80, p. 46)
      7 . energyspace production unit. (COHA, p. 247)
      8 . in the final analysis what is this thing called thetan? It is simply you before you mocked yourself up and that is the handiest definition I know of. (5608C——)
      9 . the person himself—not his body or his name, the physical universe, his mind, or anything else; that which is aware of being aware; the identity which is the individual. The thetan is most familiar to one and all as you. (Aud 25 UK)
      10. a static that can consider, and can produce space and energy and objects . (PXL, p . 121 )

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        What a weird and overcomplicated way to describe a soul without calling it a soul

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Left brain people need extremely long exhaustive "objective" explanations & definitions to explain the most basic of experiences.
          Remember Hubbard is aiming scientology at west-coast (over socialized) "elites", and NOT people with intuition or introspection.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Everything posted so far is a misconception. Give me one moment to address these. (Bump save so it doesn't get slid before I can finish)

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Scientology is not a non-dual tradition, it is a tradition of freedom for and as the individual. Other traditions try to destroy the individual perceiver like a prisoner committing suicide; Scientology instead blows out the walls of the prison to let the prisoner free.

    The word "source" does not appear in connection to OTIII in the Grade Chart: the ability gained from this level is "return of self-determinism, freedom from overwhelm." You seem to be using this word to refer to the non-dual supreme deity of the New Age, which has no bearing here; the corrupt Church today refers to Hubbard himself as "Source" meaning source of the technology, despite him listing several of his own historic sources in early books and despite his developing the technology together with numerous uncredited researchers. However, this is the only definition of the word found in the Technical Dictionary:

    SOURCE,
    1. the point of origin, or it would be the originator, or where something was begun or dreamed up or mocked up. (Class VIII, No. 18)
    2 . that from which something comes or develops; place of origin: cause. (HCOB 11 May 65)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      My mistake, I see now you are referring to the Awareness Characteristics column, where "Source" does appear next to OTIII. I gave the definition in the previous reply but let me see if I can find a relevant quotation to expand on this.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I haven't found a quotation from Hubbard himself specifically regarding Awareness Level 21, but here is Rolf Dane's description of it in his Clearbird course:
        >A person at the top of the Scale (21, Source), would have a clear awareness of the source of things. He would be able to assign right cause or source for everything. He would also be aware of all the lower steps, including the misery in the minus band of the scale.
        The Clearbird course is almost-standard tech (it includes a little of Geoffrey Filbert's post-Hubbard research and uses the term "Clearing Technology" to avoid saying "Dianetics and Scientology" for copyright or PR reasons) and he quotes the 5 May 1965 HCO Policy Letter introducing the chart in the same paragraph. Citation for the above quote here:
        >http://www.freezoneearth.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub1/class0/part1/09scales.htm
        Clearbird's manifesto:
        >http://www.freezoneearth.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub2/appendix/90clearbird.htm

        Here's the HCOPL mentioned (printed page number 33 or PDF page 69), followed by the original chart:
        https://stss.nl/stss-materials/English/Volumes%20Tech%20und%20OEC/EN_BO_Technical_Bulletins_1965_69.pdf

        Here's a long rambling 27 April 1965 lecture entitled "Awareness Levels" that mentions Hubbard's friendship with John W. Campbell, editor of Astounding Science Fiction:
        >https://soundcloud.com/user-486644102/650427-awareness-levels-1?in=user-486644102/sets/the-saint-hill-special-briefing-course-1965-lectures

        Here's the transcript of that lecture (PDF pages 435-457; he first reaches the main topic on p447):
        https://stss.nl/stss-materials/English/Tapes%20Transcripts/EN_BW_CR_SHSBC_Tapes_401_447.pdf

        Here's a video presentation of Hubbard introducing the original version of the Classification and Gradation Chart on 9 September 1965:

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The technical terminology of Electroencephalography has nothing to do with the technical terminology of Dianetics and Scientology. Here is the definition from the Technical Dictionary:

          THETAN,
          1. the living unit we call, in Scn, a thetan, that being taken from the Greek letter theta, the mathematic symbol used in Scn to indicate the source of life and life itself. (Abil Ma 1)
          2 . the awareness of awareness unit which has all potentialities but no mass, no wave-length and no location. (HCOB 3 Jul 59)
          3 . the being who is the individual and who handles and lives in the body. (HCOB 23 Apr 69)
          4 . (spirit) is described in Scn as having no mass, no wave-length, no energy and no time or location in space except by consideration or postulate. The spirit is not a thing. It is the creator of things. (FOT, p. 55)
          5 . the personality and beingness which actually is the individual and is aware of being aware and is ordinarily and normally the “person” and who the individual thinks he is. The thetan is immortal and is possessed of capabilities well in excess of those hitherto predicted for man. (Scn 8-8008, p. 9)
          6. the name given to the life source. It is the individual, the being, the personality, the knowingness of the human being. (Scn 8-80, p. 46)
          7 . energyspace production unit. (COHA, p. 247)
          8 . in the final analysis what is this thing called thetan? It is simply you before you mocked yourself up and that is the handiest definition I know of. (5608C——)
          9 . the person himself—not his body or his name, the physical universe, his mind, or anything else; that which is aware of being aware; the identity which is the individual. The thetan is most familiar to one and all as you. (Aud 25 UK)
          10. a static that can consider, and can produce space and energy and objects . (PXL, p . 121 )

          is it possible to find reliable ,pre-takeover texts of hubbard's scientology online?
          I keep being told that "free range" is the True scientology, and that glowies have hijacked the official church organisation
          >what about Sea Org, tho

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, that's what these are. https://stss.nl/materials/ and https://ao-gp.org/multimed-library/ are the two main archives I'm using. The former is more accessible for books and HCOBs but the latter has nearly all the audio lectures chronologically organized.

            I also refer to the freezone/indie secondary literature, including Dane Tops, L. Kin, Geoffrey Filbert, "The Pilot" Ken Ogger, "Clearbird" Rolf Dane, Andreas M.B. Gross, and Captain Bill Robertson.

            For periodicals, http://iapsop.com/archive/materials/ has PDFs of the Hubbard publications Journal of Scientology, Ability, and The Auditor, as well as the proto-freezone magazine The Aberree, and between http://articles.ivymag.org/pdfs.html and http://ivymag.org/cyberivy/signupform.html you can find the complete run of the freezone publication International Viewpoints Magazine.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I haven't found a quotation from Hubbard himself specifically regarding Awareness Level 21, but here is Rolf Dane's description of it in his Clearbird course:
            >A person at the top of the Scale (21, Source), would have a clear awareness of the source of things. He would be able to assign right cause or source for everything. He would also be aware of all the lower steps, including the misery in the minus band of the scale.
            The Clearbird course is almost-standard tech (it includes a little of Geoffrey Filbert's post-Hubbard research and uses the term "Clearing Technology" to avoid saying "Dianetics and Scientology" for copyright or PR reasons) and he quotes the 5 May 1965 HCO Policy Letter introducing the chart in the same paragraph. Citation for the above quote here:
            >http://www.freezoneearth.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub1/class0/part1/09scales.htm
            Clearbird's manifesto:
            >http://www.freezoneearth.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub2/appendix/90clearbird.htm

            Here's the HCOPL mentioned (printed page number 33 or PDF page 69), followed by the original chart:
            https://stss.nl/stss-materials/English/Volumes%20Tech%20und%20OEC/EN_BO_Technical_Bulletins_1965_69.pdf

            Here's a long rambling 27 April 1965 lecture entitled "Awareness Levels" that mentions Hubbard's friendship with John W. Campbell, editor of Astounding Science Fiction:
            >https://soundcloud.com/user-486644102/650427-awareness-levels-1?in=user-486644102/sets/the-saint-hill-special-briefing-course-1965-lectures

            Here's the transcript of that lecture (PDF pages 435-457; he first reaches the main topic on p447):
            https://stss.nl/stss-materials/English/Tapes%20Transcripts/EN_BW_CR_SHSBC_Tapes_401_447.pdf

            Here's a video presentation of Hubbard introducing the original version of the Classification and Gradation Chart on 9 September 1965:

            Is this related either Jung or Freud, and can I use my brilliant ability to lucid dream + these materials to do shadow work expel trauma from my body heal all the astral debris, poison and chains I put on since being a toddler??

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Do you lucid dream in the day with advanced kasina meditation or just at night when sleeping?
            Cause I want to ask someone who does in the day.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            TOTAL FREEZONER DEATH

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >glowies have hijacked the official church organization
            Well you started it trying to infiltrate the (surface level) government, you didn't think they would be far better at it then you?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >is the True scientology
            Unironically what about the Sea Org?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Thanks I want to study Scientology but don't want to pay the church any money (no offense)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Self-determinism is actually quite difficult, usually taking years of insight meditation or some kind of intense contemplation (over long periods) or combinations of these. How does scientology achieve this?
      Hubbard was spot on about man being mostly driven by impulse & habit (limited only by: socially imposed moral systems and/or fear of consequences). My estimation is the average normal person has between 6-8 seconds of introspection once or twice a week (eg: "what am I doing? I shouldn't do that") the other 99.99% of the time they're on autopilot so to speak.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    what the frick is this

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Don't ask questions, just consoom dogma and get excited for next dogma.

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