Do we have free will? What about freedom of choice?

I genuinely don't know. I can't find the answers. A lot of people are saying no, but that seems so contradictory. They decided on an opinion to share. Which implies some level of freedom. The only way I can see us possessing neither of these things is if EVERYTHING is predetermined. Literally everything.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It doesn't fricking matter because you're just going to do whatever you were going to do anyway whether you believe you have free will or not.

    The whole free will argument ultimately boils down to semantics, and the only people who are truly capable of experiencing what most would consider to be freedom are the ones who don't have major obligations, debt, or who are completely self sustaining.

    The only people who spend any lengthy time trying to mull over this question are the ones who are trying to abdicate responsibility for their actions under the guise of lacking free will.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >The only people who spend any lengthy time trying to mull over this question are the ones who are trying to abdicate responsibility for their actions under the guise of lacking free will.
      Trying to take on the responsibility but can't cos of lack of free will (this is a double entendre)

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Trying to take on the responsibility but can't cos of lack of free will (this is a double entendre)
        Yeah thats how you end up getting israelite'd by space Black folk.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Trying to take on the responsibility but can't cos of lack of free will (this is a double entendre)
        Yeah thats how you end up getting israelite'd by space Black folk.

        I mean because much of these things were forced on you. But hey what do I know?

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Freedom of choice doesn't matter because most people are compelled to make decisions based on external factors, most of which are financial. The fact that you can arbitrarily decide which school or store to go to or which politician to vote for doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things because the options are being provided by a singular driving force, and most of them use fear or greed to motivate you.

    coke/pepsi doesn't matter, you're drinking poisonous sugar water.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I think it's more complex.
    Free will exists, not so sure about freedom of choice.
    The easiest argument I have for free will is that evil exists and the most basic explanation (in my eyes at least) of evil is "knowing something is wrong and willingly accepting it".

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Reality, as far as I'll ever know of it, and could ever know of it, is simply synonyms with awareness and its content/objects.

    Awareness is not something I "do", it something that "happens", and as such not the result of "will". (and as such, not the result of any "free" "will" as well).

    The content of awareness can be categorized in many ways, my own categorization is as follows:
    There's a world (the actual raw phenomenology of the "external" world, not the silly ideas we have of it, which are mind and heart objects), a body (again, the actual raw phenomenology of the body, not the silly ideas we have of it) a mind (the raw phenomenology of thought, cognition, memory, recognition, perception, etc') and a heart (the raw phenomenology of feelings, the sacred-emotions, and innermost-will).

    When I cease all "action" and "doing" (whatever the nature of such things is) I can eventually notice that awareness persists; that the objects of the world arise without "action" on my part; that the objects of the body arise without "action" on my part; that the objects of the mind arise without "action" on my part; that the objects of the heart arise without "action" on my part; and that the objects of world, body, mind and heart interwoven and "dance" one with other without "action" on my part.

    As such I find the talk of "free" will incomprehensible.
    To me it seems that the heart has layers so to speak, the petty-feelings are birthed of perceptions in the moment, and the sacred-emotions and the innermost-will are birthed of the highest-perceptions. (perceptions = objects of the mind. the highest-perceptions are of divine beauty: loving-kindness, profound-stillness, and the sacredness of the source of all creation).

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      P.S, this is simply the way I see it (now and here). I tried to keep it laconic because I can quite easily rumble too much and get on endless tangents. It's not meant to sound authoritative, or dismissive. It's simply how I understand it, here and now, and the methodology by which this understanding was derived.

      I'm also not diminishing the importance of the innermost-will (or simply the will). whether it's "free" or not, it's birthed of the highest-perceptions that's ever been given (and can be recalled) to the mind. That's no to say it's perfect, but it's really is the best compass we got (and hopefully one's mind get to experience some form of divine-beauty and be inflamed by it, so that it's innermost-will is actually a wise compass, rather than a rubbish one).

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >A lot of people are saying no, but that seems so contradictory. They decided on an opinion to share. Which implies some level of freedom.
    I've mulled about this once...even then, I wouldn't have denied there is a "moment of freedom" (you decide on an opinion to share then say it) but you might also mull over what made you settle on that opinion. clearly something in the past made one settle and decide that's the opinion. and even before that this thing happened due to a path you walked, up to the body you were born with. A lot of room for thought in that, I suppose.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There's no reason to think you don't.

    The most rigorously tested physical theory of all time (quantum mechanics) actually implies things occur without being determinable.
    Yes, it makes no sense to our minds but QM also makes no sense to our minds.

    Usually the non-determinism of QM is swept under the rug by labeling it "true random", but it's a poor disguise. Because "random" is NOT a description of how something happens.
    For example your computer has a random number generator based on thermal processes, but that doesn't mean "random" is a description of how thermodynamics works.
    Randomness in thermal processes is a statement of our ability to practically _determine_ the outcome. If it's impractical to _determine_ the outcome then we label it "random".

    So then what the hell is "true random"? It's a clever way of saying that you TRULY cannot _determine_ what will happen.
    And that non-determinism is not a lack of information it's a fundamental feature of how reality works. This has further been experimentally verified with Bell's Experiment, and several more recent ones that I can't remember the names of.

    The ONLY reason people claim it's impossible is because the idea that something is non-determined yet still caused seems like a paradox. But it's really not, and QM supports it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Also I'd like to point out that it's interesting QM opens the door for free will (as a non-determinable process) to exist
      and it's now known that your inside the synapses in your brain there are things called "microtubules" which house stable quantum superposition states. So your brain is fundamentally non-determinable.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Most pointless topic.
    For as long as you care about these terms - you won't find out.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Materialist determinist: You are a flesh robot. Free will doesn't exist.
    Anti-materialist Indeterminist: No-one has limits. You can choose to be better.

    First one sounds fricking horrifying. If normies believed this they would fall to fatalism; they would probably kill themselves at the first inconvenience because "FATE ALLIGNED I AM DOOMED". In essence this is the blackpill and you see how it's affecting people now.

    Second one sounds nice to hear, inspires people to work toward their goals. It also sounds unrealistic given all we know now about genes and external actors on our brains. If every normie 100% believed in only free will, people with mental disabilities wouldn't get treatment, they would just assume they're people who make bad choices. People would live hellish lives where they're expected to fill shoes they don't even know they can't fill.

    It all comes down to white lies and horribly unhealthy truths. Whichever you want to believe.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Furthermore if you give people labels like "mentally moronic, stupid, schizophrenic", etc then you at some level believe in determinism.
      Most people stop there, they don't want to think about fate because it hurts; no-one says "Billy makes mentally moronic choices" or "Ron makes schizophrenic choices" yet they still believe these people were the only ones on earth who were given a fate.

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