Denial of Paul

Some people believe Paul was a false apostle, claiming that his vision on the road to Damascus was from Satan in disguise. (Acts 9:3)
>[...] and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Yet Paul was the one who warned of such deception in 2 Corinthians 11:13-14.
>For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
>And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Was this some kind of self-report?
Do you agree with this view of Paul?
What is the true Gospel message if you throw out Paul's writings?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I say this in every thread that attempts to deny Paul.

    If Peter had the power of the discernment through the holy Spirit to tell that Ananias and Sapphira were lying about their contributions for the community, and put them to sleep because they thought they could lie to God, then Paul, if he was a deceiver (he isn't) would've been found out by Peter immediately and would've suffered the same, if not a far worse fate for trying to lie about something as severe and extreme that Paul faced.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      That makes sense. He even referred to Paul as "our beloved brother" in 2 Peter 3:15. I want to know why Paul deniers believe what they believe though.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Most of them are israelites and Muslims. Paul said things that greatly offended the israelites in power back then, and Paul made it clear that Jesus is God. I'm sure you can understand why there's so much hate for the guy. It's because it makes the other 2 belief systems irrelevant and shows that
        1) The covenant with God and Israel is no longer standing
        and
        2)Jesus is God, which nullifies Islam, since they claim Jesus was merely a prophet, and not God.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Paul deniers are just seething israelites

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Muslims too.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          They specifically denying and downplaying paul while saying paul isnt following the true teaching of christ. A israelite is a derogatory word for a khazar who hate christ and wont use the x symbol

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >muh semantics

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >muh quip

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous
    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      You forget that God can use evil to do good. Paul is like the apple he has some knowledge which if eaten is good and some other knowledge which if eaten is bad. God asks: can you use discernment get understanding and wisdom?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >You forget that God can use evil to do good
        Lol, God has no need to use evil when He has made it clear that good always prevails. Paul is not like an apple, the forbidden fruit is not literal knowledge, it's the idea that one can judge for themselves what is good and evil rather than trusting God.

        Another possibility is that the catholic church later changed some of the writings of paul

        No, again. Discernment comes from the holy Spirit.

        "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
        Well no wonder the israelites rejected him, they aren't allowed to eat blood. It's moronic to think they'd accept that as their messiah tbh

        and if you break one law you break all of them as in James 2

        Yes, I know that verse. It doesn't change anything I've said. Metaphor.

        It is not b.s. theres a lot of good points. Every preacher damn near raves about paul constantly its weird. I have the holy spirit and it told me read between the lines and use yer brain

        Because Paul is a highly controversial biblical figure.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          If God chooses our leaders, as Paul said to Ananias, why would churches, who ostensibly have the Holy Spirit, hire pedophiles to be priests? Especially if they should be thrown into the ocean, how come so many of them are just sent to other parishes? Does Jesus not know or care about his altar boys that he allows his Popes to cover this up? It's quite widespread and Jesus knows the future and chooses who he calls to serve

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Paul said those things in the current time when it was written. You're wrong to think every church has the holy Spirit. Everyone will be judged for their actions on earth, whether in this life or in what comes next. If you read the Bible, you'd know this.

            https://i.imgur.com/0qU2giu.png

            Clear as mud I guess, because "Easy Believism" preachers love to quip Paul's one-liners without context.

            As for the guy saying "the holy spirit gives discernment": Even before reading on the Paul controversy, I often had trouble understanding Paul. I would read the Old Testament and the Gospels and it would make sense, but reading Paul pilpuling a new theology, I found it hard to understand how it seemed to contradict Jesus's words in the gospels.

            It's clear as day if you take the time to read the letters. Paul is not a new theology, it makes great points in regards to the more complex things happening within the Gospel. No contradictions, just your own misunderstandings.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It's clear as day if you take the time to read the letters.
            I have many times.

            >No contradictions, just your own misunderstandings.
            I've posted many contradictions already.
            But sure go ahead and just hand-wave it away as a demonstration of your faith in Paulism.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            And the Son has the authority to grant others the authority to judge as well.
            John 7:24
            Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

            You clearly haven't or else you would've read

            Romans 2:6-8
            He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

            Those aren't contradictions, those are your own misunderstandings. I want to make sure that's clear.

            It is. If God tells you to do something, you do it all. I think paul was damage control for the roman empire and pharisees. He never stopped persecuting and trying to suppress they were just forced to make concessions. The roman empire never stopped it tried to hold on wherever it could. Thats why during the middle ages germany parts of italy and other countries was literally known as the holy roman empire

            You can think whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that Paul is a legitimate Apostle.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >legitimate
            That’s a funny way to spell “self-appointed”.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Stay mad.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >John 7:24
            The context of this verse is quite a bit different from having authority to judge angels.

            Quoting Romans, another work of Paul ...

            >Those aren't contradictions, those are your own misunderstandings.
            No you are choosing to believe Paul is infallible based on your faith in him.
            There are a lot of controversial contradictions, and you are choosing to always take Paul's side, rather than admitting that there is controversy.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You misunderstand why I quoted it. I'm saying, We have the authority to judge, and the Lord has the authority to establish a council of Judges if He so wills it. Yes, quoting Romans to prove that Paul taught the importance of works that attest to ones faith, which is just one verse of many in which Paul makes this clear. I'm not choosing anything, I know what I know.

            If his promises are only to the apostles, random fishermen, what good is he?

            You're putting words in His mouth. I wouldn't expect anything else out of a snake like you.

            >You can think whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that Paul is a legitimate Apostle.

            PAUL: HEY EVERYONE I KNOW I BEEN KILLING YA'ALL FOR A WHILE NOW BUT I JUST HAD A VISION OF JESUS ON THE ROAD AND IM ON YOUR SIDE NOW AND OH YAH, JESUS MADE ME THE 13TH DISCIPLE TO REPLACE JUDAS. HAHA CRAZY RIGHT? OH JESUS DIDN'T TELL YOU? THATS OK HE TOLD ME AND IM TELLING YOU NOW

            Yes, I already explained at the beginning of this thread how and why Paul's lies wouldn't have been able to penetrate the 11 Original Disciples who all had the holy Spirit and would've known immediately that Paul was a liar if he was actually a liar. I swear, you people are deluded and are so hyperfocused on one detail that you're forgetting everything else happening in the Bible.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Yes, I already explained...

            You are so fricking tiresome and boring liar misinformation propagandist pharisee a la paul style who persecute and oppress. There were several counter arguments to that point that you conveniently ignored. As you ignore so you are and attempt to spread more ignorance. Frick you to hell devil

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            lmfao, and you are refusing to face the reality of the situation. You know that no one would be able to lie their way into that group, especially as one who has authority without the Lord's approval.

            https://i.imgur.com/FohmrVG.png

            >I'm not choosing anything, I know what I know.
            Right back at you 😉

            I don't claim to have true knowledge of theology. I have also found it very confusing.
            At the end of the day, I don't think a person would go wrong by only living by the words in the gospels, or by making an effort at works and purification.

            >I don't claim to have true knowledge of theology.
            You don't need to state the obvious.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why did Peter kill those two people for lying about giving money to the church? Would Jesus do something like that? How do you know the Devil didn't give Peter the ability to heal people and perform miracles after Jesus died? When before Peter didn't have the faith to walk on water?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            He didn't kill anyone, the Spirit put them to rest.
            >Would Jesus do something like that?
            Read Revelations.

            >how do you know the Devil didn't give Peter
            same tired arguments. Jesus already adressed this when the Pharisees accused Him of doing miracles through beelzebub.

            https://i.imgur.com/QMA241J.png

            >You don't need to state the obvious.
            But how come you claim to have true knowledge of theology, when there are 1000 different churches today with differing theologies?
            And when you are presented with so many contradictions of Paul versus Gospels, you blindly side with Paul without any explanations given other than a smug "you misunderstand"

            You don't have to believe anything I say, but please pay attention to the arguments I make and be genuine in your response. If you can't keep up with the discussion, just say that. There's no need to get offended by it.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >pay attention to the arguments I make
            You aren't making any arguments other than claiming that you have "discernment" and we have "misunderstanding"

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're being disingenuous now and I'm afraid if you're going to lie like this I wont continue this discussion with you. I have provided not only responses from my own words, but biblical verses to back them up.

            >You don't have to believe anything I say, but please pay attention to the arguments I make and be genuine in your response. If you can't keep up with the discussion, just say that. There's no need to get offended by it.
            Yeah, that anon just doesn't understand that we Christians don't give a damn about what the red letters say when we have our lord and savior Paul here to guide us.

            There you go making a non argument and putting words into my mouth. I swear, you people are so snake like.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I didn't put words in your mouth though. The cult of Paul has made it clear that we don't care about the words of Jesus by ignoring the fact that our true lord and savior Paul preached "his gospel" without ever including the anointing.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            The fact that you are trying to deny this says everything about you.

            https://i.imgur.com/mqsHGaM.jpg

            Liar liar pants on fire

            If you say so.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I do

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The fact that you are trying to deny this says everything about you.
            I'm not trying to deny anything anymore friend. I am all aboard with you and the rest of the cult of Saul. It is imperative that we educate the masses who have been fooled into thinking Jesus's words are more important then those of Paul. I mean Paul's an apostle. Who the frick is this Jesus dude?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            This will be my last response to (You).

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's good my brother. Don't waste your energy talking to me when you could be using that energy to convert others into our cult. That would be as big of a waste as listening to Jesus. And we all know us Paulians don't actually care what that bum had to say.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Same here im out. Going to eat watch scary ghost videos take a shower meditate etc.. and actually enjoy myself. Peace broddahmpmkn

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Liar liar pants on fire

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You don't have to believe anything I say, but please pay attention to the arguments I make and be genuine in your response. If you can't keep up with the discussion, just say that. There's no need to get offended by it.
            Yeah, that anon just doesn't understand that we Christians don't give a damn about what the red letters say when we have our lord and savior Paul here to guide us.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Where do you get "the Spirit put them to rest" from?? That's diabolical

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is clearly way above your head if that's your conclusion. You clearly don't understand the context of the situation, nor would I expect you to.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the Spirit put them to rest
            Why did they die immediately? What was it about their sin that they had no chance to repent?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Read the chapter, it's quite self explanatory.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            you really don't have an answer for it huh because it's entirely inconsistent with Jesus' teachings?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Just spoonfeed me bro!

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            For the benefit of everyone reading the thread, not just me

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Stop acting like a jackass.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            My bad, I posted this ->

            >and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power?
            Is he saying they DID have a chance to repent (after it was sold, until the moment they gave they money and held some back)?
            [...]
            This anon is not me and is just trying to aggravate.

            and thought he was replying to me about spoonfeeding

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What I want to know is how and why you feel you can have this discussion when you don't even understand the basics? I'm not saying this to insult you, just genuinely curious. These things are surface level.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            lying isn't even a deadly sin why would they just die like that, and what does Peter need all their money for? If they can make loaves and fish out of thin air?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You aren't ready for this discussion. Go properly educate yourself.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Until I come to the same conclusions as you, huh? And just handwave reasonable arguments against a religion that's no better than any other one?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            No. I can tell simply by what you've said that you have no grasp whatsoever in regards to the NT, at all. Go educate yourself, stop making a fool of yourself.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power?
            Is he saying they DID have a chance to repent (after it was sold, until the moment they gave they money and held some back)?

            you really don't have an answer for it huh because it's entirely inconsistent with Jesus' teachings?

            This anon is not me and is just trying to aggravate.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Now read the chapter 4.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What I want to know is how and why you feel you can have this discussion when you don't even understand the basics? I'm not saying this to insult you, just genuinely curious. These things are surface level.

            I just re-read chapter 4. Another anon is continuing to argue in what looks like bad faith. The reason I'm discussing this is because I'm new, I don't know how to get right with God, and I fear that I will drop dead like Ananias. I will quit bothering you and look for a church to join IRL and confess my sins.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not bothered by you. Getting right with God is something personal. It starts with a genuine repentance and a genuine desire to seek Him out.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Apparently dropping dead is a good thing so don't worry ab that

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I can't force God to do anything for you, but I can attest that He is real and that He helps those who put their full trust in Him. A Church is a good place to start, however I strongly suggest that you continue to read the Bible and study it. There's many resources online that will help you if you need help. Biblegateway.com is a great website that provides multiple translations. Biblehub.com is another great site that provides commentaries from different perspectives if there is something you need help understanding. Some churches even have their own bible study groups. However, I strongly suggest that you focus on your own studies, and use the many resources available to you for free to better understand things. Focus on the NT. The OT is a great read, but as a Christian who is barely starting off, all you need is the NT for right now. The OT will help you better understand some of the more obscure things in the Gospels and the letters in the NT, but by no means is it necessary.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            And most importantly, remember that it's our faith and how we put it to practice that is ultimately important. It's not about how well versed you are in scripture, it's not about how much obscure facts you know, and it's not about winning arguments on the internet. Some people are provided with the gift of knowledge to defend the faith, and others are gifted with faith itself. I'm sure you read about the gifts of the Spirit from the verses I provided you with earlier. I hope the best for you you my friend.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Some people are provided with the gift of knowledge to defend the faith, and others are gifted with faith itself
            Clearly you weren't since all you can do is yell "go read the bible"

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            And remember OP, there's going to be people like this one who want to drag you down into pointless arguments. Avoid people like this.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Some people are provided with the gift of knowledge to defend the faith
            >Using said knowledge to defend the faith is participating in pointless arguments.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You don't need to state the obvious.
            But how come you claim to have true knowledge of theology, when there are 1000 different churches today with differing theologies?
            And when you are presented with so many contradictions of Paul versus Gospels, you blindly side with Paul without any explanations given other than a smug "you misunderstand"

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm not choosing anything, I know what I know.
            Right back at you 😉

            I don't claim to have true knowledge of theology. I have also found it very confusing.
            At the end of the day, I don't think a person would go wrong by only living by the words in the gospels, or by making an effort at works and purification.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Paul's lies wouldn't have been able to penetrate the 11 Original Disciples who all had the holy Spirit
            Read the Gospels and review how many times the apostles didn't understand what Jesus was saying.
            Remember how Peter was hoping for a political movement rather than spiritual church?
            You are claiming the apostles are infallible after receiving the holy spirit, but are they really? Righteous christian saints still sin and can still be deceived.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You are claiming the apostles are infallible after receiving the holy spirit, but are they really?
            Yes, because one of the gifts of the Spirit is discernment!

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You really aren't showing discernment.
            You are just claiming you "know things" without any proofs or reasoning.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You ignore my arguments and instead of addressing them and rebutting, you just take it somewhere else.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Obviously the way this "dude" reacts and the fact there hasn't been any atheist tards in the thread saying "god aint real" strongly implies we are right in some sense

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You can think whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that Paul is a legitimate Apostle.

            PAUL: HEY EVERYONE I KNOW I BEEN KILLING YA'ALL FOR A WHILE NOW BUT I JUST HAD A VISION OF JESUS ON THE ROAD AND IM ON YOUR SIDE NOW AND OH YAH, JESUS MADE ME THE 13TH DISCIPLE TO REPLACE JUDAS. HAHA CRAZY RIGHT? OH JESUS DIDN'T TELL YOU? THATS OK HE TOLD ME AND IM TELLING YOU NOW

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            And by the way, the Disciples that replaced Judas isn't Paul, that was established before Paul was mentioned. You are making yourself look silly.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            right? that's my discernment that Paul was a crazy lying boastful incoherent coward who wouldn't be martyred by the israeli court, even though by rights he should've been.

            And reading back over it, Paul was there at the council of Antioch in Acts 21 where they all decided those rules for the Gentiles, then Paul wrote his letters where he said "to the pure, all things are pure." I've just spent my whole life taking shit from moronic boomers who can find whatever they want from Paul to tell me I'm a sinner, because all he does is flip flop

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Again, your own misunderstandings.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous
          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            There's no argument being made here. Just a silly image reaching far and wide.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I guess Jesus really did leave us as orphans. "wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am also. and anything you ask for will be done by my father in heaven"

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >us
            Stop with that. We both know you are being disingenuous here.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            If his promises are only to the apostles, random fishermen, what good is he?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You could ask why the leaders of Jerusalem and the church of God spared Barabbas and condemned Jesus to crucifixion.

            Jesus was sent to be the high priest for all, and through the holy spirit we are all invited into the inner chamber of worship. Basing your faith on the worthiness of other men or churches or priests is a stumbling block. The heavens are open and we have our own access to the inner sanctum, cast away those who do evil and allow God to make those things right. Worry about your own walk

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Another possibility is that the catholic church later changed some of the writings of paul

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Agreed anonkin good find tbh makes me happy SENPAI

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I just think the apostles were human just like anyone else and I don't think they all held the measure and understanding of the holy spirit like Jesus did.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Also somebody posted pic related yesterday, but the thread is archived. If that anon sees this, I'd like to hear more about your views.
    >

    [...]

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      You quoted Lucifer

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Most of them are israelites and Muslims. Paul said things that greatly offended the israelites in power back then, and Paul made it clear that Jesus is God. I'm sure you can understand why there's so much hate for the guy. It's because it makes the other 2 belief systems irrelevant and shows that
        1) The covenant with God and Israel is no longer standing
        and
        2)Jesus is God, which nullifies Islam, since they claim Jesus was merely a prophet, and not God.

        Great thanks, that's pretty much what I thought.

        It's straight up bullshit lmao. If one has the holy Spirit, it provides discernment of the scriptures, both Old and New. Anyone with the holy Spirit will laugh at the claims this person has made.

        I may not have the Holy Spirit then since I felt the need to ask. I was an atheist until recently. Does the Holy Spirit remove all doubt of salvation?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The holy Spirit provides different gifts depending on what the individual is called to do.

          1 Corinthians 2:14-16
          14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,

          “Who has known the mind of the Lord
          so as to instruct him?”[d]

          But we have the mind of Christ.

          1 Corinthians 12
          (too much text to post here, read it on biblegateway or your own personal bible)

          Glad to hear that you're no longer an athiest.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I strongly suggest avoiding any discord groups being shilled on this website, by the way.

            Your guidance is appreciated.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            May God bless you and strengthen you. Have a blessed day anon.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          I strongly suggest avoiding any discord groups being shilled on this website, by the way.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The holy spirit absolutely does remove all doubt. The opposite of doubt is faith my guy. Learn to meditate and read the psalms on meditation. The very first one says it.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's straight up bullshit lmao. If one has the holy Spirit, it provides discernment of the scriptures, both Old and New. Anyone with the holy Spirit will laugh at the claims this person has made.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        It is not b.s. theres a lot of good points. Every preacher damn near raves about paul constantly its weird. I have the holy spirit and it told me read between the lines and use yer brain

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >I have the holy spirit and it told me read between the lines and use yer brain
          This is how I know you don't, because you said this.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Theology is heavily based on Paul.
          It certainly is possible to make a Jesus-based church that is centered on Jesus quotes in the gospels, while ignoring Paulism.

          (1) Was Paul the yeast of the Pharisees that Jesus warned to avoid? By rejecting Paul, it is makes one focus on works and purifying oneself.
          (2) Or was Paul chosen by Jesus as a demonstration of his mercy, that the most zealous pharisee can be converted and redeemed?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            There's this false idea that people think Paul was against works that attest to the faith, but if you pay close attention to his letters, you will see that Paul still makes it clear of the importance of doing works that attest to ones faith.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Clear as mud I guess, because "Easy Believism" preachers love to quip Paul's one-liners without context.

            As for the guy saying "the holy spirit gives discernment": Even before reading on the Paul controversy, I often had trouble understanding Paul. I would read the Old Testament and the Gospels and it would make sense, but reading Paul pilpuling a new theology, I found it hard to understand how it seemed to contradict Jesus's words in the gospels.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You are circumsized and not fooling anyone

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If Paul wasn't a false apostle, then why does his "gospel" not include the anointing?
    >And truly, I say to you, whereverthe gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be told in memory of her.
    ...
    >Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is a weak argument. At the time of Paul's calling, the Gospels were taught by word of mouth. Such a detail isn't important as it is to preach the truth of Christ and the Salvation only He provides.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Such a detail isn't important
        >Jesus words aren't important
        So you only larp as a Christian?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          When converting a group of people who have no understanding why the anointing of oil is important, yes, it's not important. Paul was called to convert people who had no understanding of what the old covenant entailed, nor the things God did for Israel.

          >See why this isn't important?
          No, would you like to explain to Jesus why we shouldn't take his words seriously? My fake Christian friend

          This is pathetic. Jesus made sure that what she did was written in the Gospels, but by no means is this bit of information a key bit of information to understand what salvation is, who salvation comes from and why Jesus Christ is important.

          Please, bring a better argument next time.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >When converting a group of people who have no understanding why the anointing of oil is important, yes, it's not important. Paul was called to convert people who had no understanding of what the old covenant entailed, nor the things God did for Israel.
            So Jesus lied to us when he said the anointing would be included wherever the gospel is told. Because if your dumb opinion was true it would probably have the qualifier "except where people wouldn't understand the significance"
            >This is pathetic. Jesus made sure that what she did was written in the Gospels, but by no means is this bit of information a key bit of information to understand what salvation is, who salvation comes from and why Jesus Christ is important
            Cute strawman to defend your false apostle. I never argued it was. I argued that Jesus gave us a simple test and Paul failed it.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Paul preaching to a group of people who have no understanding of the history of Israel, nor the things God did for them

      >Paul preaching about salvation through Christ alone, and His sacrifice

      ......

      >Oh yea, by the way. Jesus was anointed with oil prior to His death, as a symbol of bodily preparation rites

      See why this isn't important? It's good that she has that memory of her inscribed in the Bible, but it's a detail that has no significance when converting people into the faith.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >See why this isn't important?
        No, would you like to explain to Jesus why we shouldn't take his words seriously? My fake Christian friend

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    That is a good question.

    From my understanding , Paul is a true apostle but are the works attributed to him actually his own or hearsay and conjecture mixed with his teachings deliberately or accidentally by a scribe passing on his teachings ?

    Writing down the teachings of an instructor in their name was common practice for students in ancient times.

    >Apostle
    >Pseudo-Paul

    "Make the martial choice to seek heavenly grace. This is higher spiritual law"

    Plenty of biblical works are translated in parts by various individuals and groups. The translation is a jumbled mess , hence all the sleeping in church during sermons (ask the holy spirit)

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, the works attributed to him are his own. Yes, back then people hired others to write things down for them. This does not mean that Paul wasn't telling the person what to write down.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why did Paul say in Acts 22 onwards that he did nothing wrong against the israeli people and would submit to their court, but then defects to Rome, where he and Peter are killed? why would you believe anything that came out of Rome, which is Babylon?

    Why did they leave out the "very serious accusations" made against Paul by the court when we know from his own letters what they were accusing him of: He was telling people they didn't have to be circumcised and could eat sacrificed food. If Peter made 4 commandments for the people in Jerusalem and the people around them included Blood, ritual food, sexual immorality, etc. Why would Peter give one law for the Gentiles and Paul teach something different? How is that one Holy Spirit if they're giving different teachings?

    Genuinely curious bc I had this thought the other day.

    J0WH

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Acts 22 onwards
      Be more specific with your verses, please. Paul was correct when he said one didn't need to be circumcised and eating food sacrificed by ritual (unknowingly) is fine. He said knowing it makes all the difference, and if done in front of a believer with weak faith, it's best not to partake in it, because they may not understand that said sacrificed food means nothing when sacrificed to a false god. Jesus Himself stated that it's not what enters the mouth, but what exits the mouth that defiles a person. It has nothing to do with what you eat.

      Peter was known to be scared of the israelites, and Paul had to confront him once because of it. Also, be more specific with the exact verses in regards to Peter giving 4 commandments to the gentiles.

      >When converting a group of people who have no understanding why the anointing of oil is important, yes, it's not important. Paul was called to convert people who had no understanding of what the old covenant entailed, nor the things God did for Israel.
      So Jesus lied to us when he said the anointing would be included wherever the gospel is told. Because if your dumb opinion was true it would probably have the qualifier "except where people wouldn't understand the significance"
      >This is pathetic. Jesus made sure that what she did was written in the Gospels, but by no means is this bit of information a key bit of information to understand what salvation is, who salvation comes from and why Jesus Christ is important
      Cute strawman to defend your false apostle. I never argued it was. I argued that Jesus gave us a simple test and Paul failed it.

      No, Jesus didn't lie. You are trying to make an argument here when there is none to be made. I already explained myself 2 times why this bit of information is not necessary to convert gentiles who would have no understanding of the meaning behind the anointing to begin with. Please, bring a better argument, this is sad.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >I already explained myself 2 times why this bit of information is not necessary to convert gentiles who would have no understanding of the meaning behind the anointing to begin with.

        You explained how shit your opinion is. Jesus didn't say the anointing would only be told to people who understand the significance. He said where ever in the world the gospel is preached so the anointing will be told. Paul preached the "gospel" all around the world and yet not once mentions the anointing. It's not a requirement to convert people. It's a basic litmus test to see who might actually be preaching the gospel. Which your false prophet unarguably fails.
        "And truly, I say to you, wherever the gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be told in memory of her.
        "In the whole world" and "in memory of her". Not "to people who understand the symbology" and "for the sake of converting people"

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          It's not a litmus test, you're making an argument out of nothing. This is going full circle now, and I'm not going to repeat myself anymore. Bring a better argument.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Bring a better argument
            I'm sorry Jesus words weren't enough for you. Shame how fake Christians are.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It is. If God tells you to do something, you do it all. I think paul was damage control for the roman empire and pharisees. He never stopped persecuting and trying to suppress they were just forced to make concessions. The roman empire never stopped it tried to hold on wherever it could. Thats why during the middle ages germany parts of italy and other countries was literally known as the holy roman empire

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Controlled opposition.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >what enters the mouth or exits

        So if you cannibal eat human flesh or drink blood that doesnt defile you? What about that one video of the weird guy eating cat turds?

        What a load of crap

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Is the OT fulfilled or not? I thought "the wolf and the lamb will eat straw together, and none will be afraid on all my holy mountain" was the fulfillment of the prophecies, but that hasn't happened yet. Why did Jesus say "not one stroke of the law shall be removed, and the one who teaches so will be the least in the kingdom of Heaven" When he himself was teaching against the Sabbath and removing dietary laws? What does this make Paul?

      Most importantly, why did he teach his followers to drink his blood when since Genesis God told humanity to never drink blood? That makes it a moral law, not dietary, and Peter imposed this on his followers too. They would never drink the blood of a sacrifice, where did Jesus get that from? imo its from Isaiah 49:26
      "I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine. Then all mankind will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior, your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.”

      Imo this means that everyone who drinks Christ's blood, and you must or else you'll have no part with him, is complicit in judging people for sin. You break one of the biggest rules in the OT so if you damn anyone else to Hell by the laws of the OT, you damn yourself

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, it's fulfilled. Daniel speaks of the end times, which Revelation goes deeper into. This doesn't mean the old covenant isn't rendered null. Jesus said that in regards to His fulfillment on earth.
        >until all things have taken place.
        His sacrifice was the "fulfillment of the law" and His blood rendered the old covenant null, and was the start of the new covenant. Paul explains all of this already.

        The drinking of the blood is figurative, a mystery that only those who need to know will understand. Isaiah 49:26 is a metaphor, a prophecy. If you've read the entirety of the OT, you'd know that many prophecies use imagery and such to explain certain things. This is not to be taken literal.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          If you commit adultery in your heart it's the same as actually doing it though, and if God never approved of drinking blood then why would Jesus tell his followers to do it? Bc "blood is the life." But if Jesus upheld "since genesis man and woman become one flesh" why not the blood covenant? And again, they would never drink the blood of a sacrifice, I'm just confused on why the israeli Messiah would tell people to break one of the original israeli commandments? It just doesn't make sense and the world we live in doesn't represent a fulfillment of scripture. Our world looks like the religion was coopted to grow an ideological and earthly empire

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What no frick you b***h god aint real trolling? Why so serious when it comes to paul devil shill

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Discredeting Paul is an ancient israelite tactic. He is an absolute mystical wizard and his esoteric teachings may sound schizo to the uninitiated normie, so the israelite attempts to exploit the goyim and lead them off track and into a trap.

    Don't listen to OP. St Paul will lead you to Christ and Christ is the truth.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Paul even made it clear that some teachings of the faith are for the mature, and not everyone could understand. There was israelites who would enter the crowds Paul would preach to and intentionally spread lies to confuse them and poison their minds. There's a reason why there's so much hate towards Paul, all unwarranted, but it's understandable from the eyes of one who denies Christ.

      If you commit adultery in your heart it's the same as actually doing it though, and if God never approved of drinking blood then why would Jesus tell his followers to do it? Bc "blood is the life." But if Jesus upheld "since genesis man and woman become one flesh" why not the blood covenant? And again, they would never drink the blood of a sacrifice, I'm just confused on why the israeli Messiah would tell people to break one of the original israeli commandments? It just doesn't make sense and the world we live in doesn't represent a fulfillment of scripture. Our world looks like the religion was coopted to grow an ideological and earthly empire

      Looking at a woman lustfully is not the equivalent of eating meat offered to a false god. Jesus didn't tell anyone to literally drink His blood. You are confusing it out of your own lack of understanding. Jesus used parables, imagery and metaphor many times in His teachings. Do you think Jesus is a literal lamb? Do you think the holy Spirit is a literal dove? C'mon, now.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
        Well no wonder the israelites rejected him, they aren't allowed to eat blood. It's moronic to think they'd accept that as their messiah tbh

        and if you break one law you break all of them as in James 2

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          In the OT Moses raised a bronze snake to cure the Israelites of the snakes bites they received as punishment for disobeying God. This was a shadow what was to come with Jesus as he would be raised on a cross as salvation for the sins of mankind.

          It's symbolism and it's fact. God doled out the punishment on Jesus that was meant for mankind. Yet it says the not a bone in his body was allowed to be broken. Do you think God meant for us to literally eat the flesh of Jesus or drink his literal blood? Have you not read the final supper when Jesus commands his disciples to eat the bread and drink the wine and tells them this is his flesh and his blood? How are you persuaded by such a weak rationale when the gospels explain themselves so clearly?

          The sins of mankind were paid for by the blood of Christ. We are to drink his blood symbolically but also in truth, that is we are to believe with faith. The same way Jesus says there will be no mountain to worship on anymore but instead God seeks those who worship in spirit and truth.

          To fall victim to the stumbling block that drinking blood is a violation of OT laws and that Jesus commands his followers to drink his blood is an easily avoidable mistake if you actually read the gospels. This shouldn't need more discussion.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Ok but when the Neshushtan began to be worshipped instead of God they had to tear it down.

            Jesus' 2 commandments: love God and love your neighbor. People then say, "Hmm, what does God like? Well based on this OT (excluding everything that Jesus explicitly did away with, or at least the proof of him saying it survives says) God hates gay people and says slavery is a good thing." It breaks my mind that you people say all this shit about grace and the OT is fulfilled... except in all the ways we think you hurt society EXCEPT the ways we hurt society bc we benefit from it. It's not logical, you're trying to make people accept that 2 + 2 = 5 when the truth of the kingdom should be so simple that a child could understand it. If God loved you, you would be born with the knowledge and grace required to bring Heaven on Earth, but no, he knits in jealousy and fear and puts you in abusive family relations and lets his priests rape you. Utterly moronic. Not to say that's any worse than any of the other religions, but LOOK AT THE FRUITS.

            It's just obvious that Jesus, who knew everything about the OT, and broke explicitly one of the binding laws of reality that Blood = Life, that you don't judge based on the rules of the OT at all. Jesus said the failure of the israelites was being particular about ceremonial aspects but allowing homelessness, hungry widows, straining out a fly and swallowing a camel, exactly how this modern church is in ANY of its denominations. And why are so many of you christians fricking anti-semitic?? Why would you voluntarily choose an ethnoreligion that doesn't include you and break into it? For the excuse of world domination? There was such beautiful religious diversity in the world but they chopped down druid groves, dragged Hypatia out of a lecture into the street where they gouged her eyes out, kidnapped indigenous kids to get the native out, my god.

            I am completely justified in my anger and I have beefs 3000 years old.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is an example of the consequence that is Paul, damn shame.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      OP here. I didn't make the thread to discredit Paul (since I am a new believer lacking in wisdom). I made it to ask why others discredit him.

      You forget that God can use evil to do good. Paul is like the apple he has some knowledge which if eaten is good and some other knowledge which if eaten is bad. God asks: can you use discernment get understanding and wisdom?

      Another possibility is that the catholic church later changed some of the writings of paul

      This is what I feared might be true about Paul. Can anyone answer these posts?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        I mean the sanhadrin/pharisee/elitist death cult is a little upset that Saul their greatest antichristian warrior betrayed them and became St Paul, the greatest of the apostles of Christ, mighty Church builder.

  7. 2 months ago
    Student

    I am not sure about the Paul debate.
    There are many scripture analysis where Paul seems to contradict what Jesus said in the gospels.
    As for the theological importance, if you are a Jesus only theologian, then you would believe that works are very important. If you are a Paul based theologian, then you would prioritize endless mercy and easy believism.
    However even last minute salvation was a thing even in the gospels, which is a pro-point for Paul.
    Theology is confusing and can seemingly be interpreted many different ways.

  8. 2 months ago
    Student

    https://abeau11.wordpress.com/2015/03/23/list-of-contradictions-of-jesus-by-paul-to-make-new-theology/ Pauline controversies.
    https://exposingpaul.wordpress.com/

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Pharisee Saul
    opposed and fought Christian influence on Judaism
    >Apostle Paul
    Recognised it could be useful against Roman unity

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"

    >"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.

    >"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

    >The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Paul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

    Assuming he was not a legit schizo or lying, this kind of thing you'd take at face value whether it's actually Satan or not (as you can't know)

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Christianity seems to me like kinda Satanic religion but hope I'm wrong

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah nothing about this thread has convinced me that the savior of the world really wanted us to destroy all pagan religions and take their land and build a trillion dollar church on top of the one he broke down. There's nothing differentiating the church from a pagan one, and obfuscation from Paul seems to be a reason for it. How does homelessness still exist in a world where Jesus taught to treat everyone like a family member. I don't trust any of it

      This is clearly way above your head if that's your conclusion. You clearly don't understand the context of the situation, nor would I expect you to.

      In your first post you said the spirit "put them to sleep" but they literally died at his feet. Where do you get that from?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >In your first post you said the spirit "put them to sleep" but they literally died at his feet. Where do you get that from?
        Someone needs to study their bible!

        https://i.imgur.com/Mq6TIAg.gif

        Same here im out. Going to eat watch scary ghost videos take a shower meditate etc.. and actually enjoy myself. Peace broddahmpmkn

        Later

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'm the guy who posted a lot of the infographs with scripture quotes.
    At the end of the day I don't claim to know the truth of the matter.
    Theology is confusing.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      God bless you for your humility.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >commanding the power of god to bless

        >modest;humble

        How ironic!

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I don't like Paul, his letters in particular are written as though they were intended to be the basis of Catholicism. The need to do works in addition to faith. Satan as an ever-present threat. The idea of just taking it like a pussy when you're faced with adversity etc.
    Jesus stood up to the pharisees when they kept hassling him. People were defiling a temple so Jesus whipped the frick out of them. Jesus said, believe in me and you will be saved. Where did Paul get the idea of works from? Why is Paul so obsessed with Satan that he personifies him and makes him into an evil counterpart to God? I'm fairly sure he mentions Satan by name more times than the entire rest of the bible, NT and OT combined

    • 2 months ago
      OP

      I thought Paul was the one who preached that works, though important, are NOT required for salvation (Eph 2:9)

      I'm not bothered by you. Getting right with God is something personal. It starts with a genuine repentance and a genuine desire to seek Him out.

      I can't force God to do anything for you, but I can attest that He is real and that He helps those who put their full trust in Him. A Church is a good place to start, however I strongly suggest that you continue to read the Bible and study it. There's many resources online that will help you if you need help. Biblegateway.com is a great website that provides multiple translations. Biblehub.com is another great site that provides commentaries from different perspectives if there is something you need help understanding. Some churches even have their own bible study groups. However, I strongly suggest that you focus on your own studies, and use the many resources available to you for free to better understand things. Focus on the NT. The OT is a great read, but as a Christian who is barely starting off, all you need is the NT for right now. The OT will help you better understand some of the more obscure things in the Gospels and the letters in the NT, but by no means is it necessary.

      And most importantly, remember that it's our faith and how we put it to practice that is ultimately important. It's not about how well versed you are in scripture, it's not about how much obscure facts you know, and it's not about winning arguments on the internet. Some people are provided with the gift of knowledge to defend the faith, and others are gifted with faith itself. I'm sure you read about the gifts of the Spirit from the verses I provided you with earlier. I hope the best for you you my friend.

      Thanks anon(s). This thread seems to have disturbed a hornet's nest but it's been educational and I appreciate it.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        The thing is, that if one has genuine faith, it will be reflected in their actions and behavior. Read the parable of the sheep and the goats Matthew 25:31-46. You're absolutely welcome, by the way. This is how it is when discussing the faith on this board, which is why I warn you to avoid trying to have discussions like this, because there will be many wolves in sheeps clothing who will try very hard to mislead you and confuse you.

        • 2 months ago
          OP

          Maybe healthy communication is a prerequisite, and getting theology right comes after.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That can very well be the case, too. Whatever it may be, take the time to get a solid understanding of it all before trying to discuss it on here. So you can (hopefully) tell who's trying to help and who's trying to mislead.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Remember, Satan tried to use biblical verses in hopes of tricking Jesus.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          for 2000 years the church has burned pagan ways of life down. When James and John wanted to call fire from heaven to destroy a Samaritan village for rejecting Jesus, Jesus rebuked them. Y'all aren't sheep at all, you're sitting on a pile of corpses of people that couldn't fight against you, and are at perpetual war with people who are just as dogmatic.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            What denomination am I part of?

            Go read Revelation.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Revelation was written by some random John on an island! How many other schizo texts were left out of the canon arbitrarily? You read about Hypatia and understand my disdain for this religion. The fruits of this tree are poison, and bad fruit doesn't come from good trees.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Also, read the story of Sodom and Gommorah

            Revelation was written by some random John on an island! How many other schizo texts were left out of the canon arbitrarily? You read about Hypatia and understand my disdain for this religion. The fruits of this tree are poison, and bad fruit doesn't come from good trees.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia

            You don't have to believe anything in the Bible. No one is forcing you to. You lack understanding and it's clear as day that your anger is unjustified. But it's fine, because it's your life to see things how you please.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        I'll share with you and anyone else reading some wise words from someone on here who shared with me

        >Don't argue with the serpent seed. Instead of actually addressing the validity of your conclusion their only aim is to draw you into argument,
        for argument drags you out of wisdom into Pride.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Clearly you and that person aren't servants of the Lord.
          >And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness.

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    There are like 80 people who claim to be Paul responsible for the Pauline epistles. Frankly I have no interest in pretending otherwise, and I wouldn't even particularly care about what "Paul" had to say even if he was just one guy.

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Benjamin is a ravenous wolf; in the morning he devours the prey, in the evening he divides the plunder
    Gen 49:27
    >I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the israeli law.
    Phillipians 3:5

    >Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”
    Matthew 26:13
    >Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,
    He preached "his gospel" all through the world. And yet he doesn't once mentions the anointing.

    >So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
    Matthew 24:26-27
    >And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest
    Acts 3:5

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Matthew 24:26-27
      Pertains to the second coming mentioned in Revelation. What Paul experienced was a direct experience with the Lord, similar to what the Disciples experienced after the resurrection. Still trying to push that empty argument with the anointing, I see.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Pertains to the second coming mentioned in Revelation. What Paul experienced was a direct experience with the Lord, similar to what the Disciples experienced after the resurrection.
        Did the experience with the real disciples also cause them to go blind and put scales in their eyes?
        "And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized." Acts 9:18
        >Still trying to push that empty argument with the anointing, I see.
        Sad to see people who claim to follow Jesus treat the lack of an annointing which is clearly stated to be included wherever the gospel is preached like it's an empty argument.

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Imagine you are on government payroll. Low end paying the bills, get no love from anyone for working with the feds.
    You are trying to clean up a gang that is so loyal they're all killing themselves rather than rat.
    They are also leaderless.

    One day, whilst driving back to your broken little house after another meaningless bust, you decide to take advantage of these leaderless fanatics.

    You know what they're about, how they work, but also you are coming at it from the point of view as a man trying to get rich, not change the world.

    Suddenly you reach out to your informants and tell them you've got a plan to get the band together as an inside man, making you very rich and Powerful on the way.

    Change the police to Paul and the gang to Christians. You don't need the devil, he was probably false, and had the human capacity to do it alone.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      First and foremost, they had a leader. Secondly, Saul was in a high position prior to his conversion. He gave up a family legacy to pursue the faith. Thirdly, the Disciples had the holy Spirit, which is basically a direct phone line to Jesus. Try again.

      >Pertains to the second coming mentioned in Revelation. What Paul experienced was a direct experience with the Lord, similar to what the Disciples experienced after the resurrection.
      Did the experience with the real disciples also cause them to go blind and put scales in their eyes?
      "And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized." Acts 9:18
      >Still trying to push that empty argument with the anointing, I see.
      Sad to see people who claim to follow Jesus treat the lack of an annointing which is clearly stated to be included wherever the gospel is preached like it's an empty argument.

      There was no need for that, because they were with Jesus in the flesh, and they were not persecuting anyone. That was basically Jesus telling Saul
      >bro, you're blind. I'm going to open your eyes to the truth and have you work for me.

      There's no lack of understanding, just a non argument from you. Seriously, get over it already lmao.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >There was no need for that, because they were with Jesus in the flesh, and they were not persecuting anyone. That was basically Jesus telling Saul
        So no snake scales?
        >There's no lack of understanding, just a non argument from you. Seriously, get over it already lmao.
        I'm not the one who made the argument. Jesus did.
        "Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”
        >Hurr durr Jesus didn't actually mean the thing he blatantly said

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >So no snake scales?
          Fish have scales, too.

          You are twisting things into something they aren't. have a good day.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Fish have scales, too.
            You think it was fish scales he was blinded with? You could have just said some shit like "that was the devil leaving him" and appear like less of a loon. The assumption of "fish scales" shows that you also think this passage is quite weird.
            >You are twisting things into something they aren't. have a good day.
            How am I twisting the words? They are direct from the bible some of the most blatant lines Jesus spoke.
            "Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”
            What do you think that phrase means?

    • 2 months ago
      OP

      He wasn't one of the original 12 disciples and hated Jesus while he was still alive. Many of the things he says in the Letters directly contradict Jesus' messages about love, compassion and forgiveness.
      Given he only came around on Jesus after he died and after he became a hugely influential figure, I'm gonna call Paul a grifter who saw an opportunity. You additionally cannot cross-reference 90% of the shit he says, unlike the Gospels, because it's mainly opinions or "an angel showed me in a dream". Why any of his writings are canonical literature is a mystery to me.

      I can understand if you think he was deceived, that's why I made the thread. I can even understand if there are apparent contradictions with Jesus' teachings. But I don't buy that he made the whole thing up and became a grifter. Why join the persecuted group and suffer beatings, etc. if he didn't really see a vision (even if someone claims the vision was from Satan).

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Hm, that's a good point honestly, I hadn't really thought that far ahead about it. I guess I can't answer. To maintain the sense of cynicism, maybe he saw something to gain still through perseverance, or maybe despite his differences in belief (seemed much more fundie israeli) he saw Jesus as an avenue towards revitalising and reinvigorating the faith that he clearly strongly believed in?

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    He wasn't one of the original 12 disciples and hated Jesus while he was still alive. Many of the things he says in the Letters directly contradict Jesus' messages about love, compassion and forgiveness.
    Given he only came around on Jesus after he died and after he became a hugely influential figure, I'm gonna call Paul a grifter who saw an opportunity. You additionally cannot cross-reference 90% of the shit he says, unlike the Gospels, because it's mainly opinions or "an angel showed me in a dream". Why any of his writings are canonical literature is a mystery to me.

  18. 2 months ago
    OP

    For any atheists reading the thread, here is what happened in me before I began to open up to the possibility of God's existence. I went from this attitude:
    >A loving god wouldn't do that.
    >This is nonsense.
    >God's ways go against my conscience.
    to this attitude:
    >I wonder why God did that?
    >I don't understand this yet.
    >There's something wrong with my conscience.
    As for how to make that change happen in you, I don't know. I still slip back into the old arrogant mindset most days.

    Also consider that Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 sure sound like they're talking about Jesus, yet they were written hundreds of years BC. And then the fact that many disciples were willing to be killed over their testimony about the empty tomb and the resurrection.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      The reasons I can't do this
      >I know I've never hurt anybody with more than occasional angry words sometimes
      >maybe this is why I've been under attack since birth
      >I have recognized a malicious will of an evil entity in people who have attacked me while possessed by it
      >I know this malicious being has some godlike powers to affect my world going far beyond possessing isolated people

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Oh man, there's so many more cross references between the OT and the NT.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Dawg it sounds like you're guilt tripping, gaslighting and manipulating yourself into making excuses for an entity you don't even fully believe in, those aren't healthy thought patterns to speculate about, and it's not at all arrogant to not entertain thoughts like them.
      This is part of why I dislike Christianity so much despite having a shitton of respect for Jesus, a lot of the rhetoric reinforcing its "faith" is not at all dissimilar to the kinds of excuses for abuse that you hear all the time around vulnerable, exploited people.

      • 2 months ago
        OP

        I get what you mean. The guilt tripping isn't so much a reason for believing but rather a result. The OT prophecies and the testimonies of the disciples are reasons to believe. And once you believe, what are you going to do, argue with God? He is the source of the concepts of right and wrong, so if I disagree about something, I should assume I'm wrong.

        I've also felt vulnerable and exploited, and I've perceived far-reaching, powerful malicious forces similar to what this anon

        The reasons I can't do this
        >I know I've never hurt anybody with more than occasional angry words sometimes
        >maybe this is why I've been under attack since birth
        >I have recognized a malicious will of an evil entity in people who have attacked me while possessed by it
        >I know this malicious being has some godlike powers to affect my world going far beyond possessing isolated people

        is describing, but these experiences are not evidence against God's existence. These are reasons to either be angry at the idea of God, or to depend on God if He exists, because we have no other hope.

  19. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    No, he was the real deal. I love Paul.

  20. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    1/2

  21. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Tell us about the book of life in revelation.
    Apparently to be saved, you need to be in their book of lyfe wherein the names of the saved are written.
    It's only for 144000 israelites too.

    Christian larpers shouldnt hide this info when preaching

    • 2 months ago
      OP

      I don't understand Revelation at all so hopefully someone else can explain.

      https://i.imgur.com/DmvPPnB.jpg

      [...]

      This is what gives me hope. If Saul can be converted and saved, then anyone can have hope.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        No one "gets" Revelation, it is revealed step by step. It is very much about the church and the last days we are living in. The omega to genesis, the Revelation of Jesus Christ completes God's messege to man. The Church prevails, Christ overcame sin death and the devil, died and rose and revealed the true nature of God, which is love.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Oh bolly, it sure is a coincidence, but I don't understand the book that puts Christian larpers in a bad light!

        Let me then explain:

        To be saved, your name has to be in a book israelitesus calls the "book of life"™
        The book of life has 144000 names, all of them are israelites.

        This is carefully omitted when preaching, instead, you're told salvation is a gift.

        Quite a surprise that there was no salvation there for you in the end, instead, just like Jesus said and Paul was silent about, salvation is only for israelites.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Can't be only israelites, the pharisees cursed themselves with the blood of Jesus upon their heads and the only way for them to be redeemed is to accept Christ as their messiah.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          No Jesus said in Matthew 15 us Gentile dogs could get the kid's crumbs from the table!! He's so nice man he loves me so much

        • 2 months ago
          sage

          144k could be a symbolic number representing many israelites from the 12 tribes. Even if it's a precise number, they are not the only ones to be saved, but they are sealed with special protection. Immediately after their first mention, Revelation describes others who are saved.

          Rev 7:9
          >After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palms in their hands;

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            In Rev 9:3 you see that anyone who DOESN'T have that seal (everyone except the 144,000) gets tortured for 5 months by scorpion locusts!

  22. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    2/2
    Paul was a Benjaminite Pharisee doing dirty work for the Sanhedrin.
    He saw the light and became an apostle of the risen Jesus and practiced the original religion intended for man.
    The way . ( HaDerek).

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/Ls5xn86.jpg

      1/2

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