Buddhism or the Left Hand Path

This might come across as really cringe to a lot of people because what most people consider to be "Left Hand Path" is edgy rebellion and affiliating with demonic entitities, while Buddhism - whether Theravada, Mahayana, or Vajrayana is typically systematized. Plus, the "Left Hand Path" in Vedic tradition typically referred to unorthodox praxis / harmful praxis, while the Left Hand Path in the West refers to Satanic stuff.

Plus they are two different cultural experiences.

However, I've worked with a larger enough works and praxis to see that there is a coherent system behind those entities, and most of it is in fact is synonymous with Buddhism, say for the conclusion that is drawn.

In Buddhism, the goal seems to be to transcend interdependent arising and thereby transcending samsara, viewing desire as the means by which interdependent arises. Because desire ultimately leads to suffering, the only way to overcome suffering and find peace is to overcome desire.

The Left Hand Path seems to value "Eros" above all, that love is what underpins Samsara or interdependant arising. Rather than transcending Samsara, one should embrace Samsara because the only way to find peace is through love in its most intense form, embracing desire and being willing to undergo the worst amounts of pain - the fires of hell - in order to do so. Samsara is not something so much to transcend but to embrace the full experience thereof to the extent that one is still able to maintain their mental constitution, because by doing so one is able to embrace love in its highest forms.

Honestly I'm struggling with both, because both philosophies seem sound but obviously have some nasty strings attached (with Buddhism having pro-death proclivities and villifying desire, the Left Hand Path leading to the brink of mental insanity and hellish pain).

What is the answer?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The satanic attribute given to the left hand path in the west can be misleading, and it has been heavily stigmatised by christian ideas.

    The LHP is the path of self - of working towards your own goals, towards bettering yourself, towards rejecting and shedding what limits you. This may translate into unsavoury practices, but those are not a must. No one can force you to do that, it is the whole point. You work on your own terms.

    I am not very well versed in eastern philosophies and ideas, so I cannot speak of that.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      What this anon said. I think OP has misunderstood LHP and RHP.
      RHP is about following the trails of past exemplars. Of taking to a tradition sinderely and earnestly and attaining whatever you call the goal through said process.
      LHP is about blazing your own trail, whether you leave a path for others to follow or not. It is about never accepting any one path or master (which means never having efficient and guaranteed valid guide) but learning what you can from all and honing it through the faith that intuition and inherent slef-ness will lead to the goal.

      I dont think either style is wrong or negative, although the RHP organizations will obviously reject and paint LHP people as such.
      LHP is harder, slower, but allows for less dogmatic confidence and does not require as much pre-requisite humbling.
      Look into Dattatreya and the Avadhuta Gita for LHP Vedic writings. But remember - he is there to point and encourage; he is not there to lead or to carry.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dattatreya#Self-education:_The_24_Gurus_of_Dattatreya
      >The young Dattatreya is famous in the Hindu texts as the one who started with nothing and without teachers, yet reached self-awareness by observing nature during his Sannyasi wanderings, and treating these natural observations as his twenty four teachers.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/YjZ28uD.jpg

        Why don't people understand that chads like Jesus and Buddha intentionally wrote nothing down for this exact purpose?
        RHP and LHP is just more allegorical euphemism for polarity. Positive and Negative. Conscious and Subconscious. Masculine and Feminine. Hot and Cold. Red Fish and Blue Fish.
        ...to follow any tao or mystical or gnosis or whichever flavor of the week in terms of writing or pictograph or dialogue is to only indulge in the former but never the latter. To know truth is to cast all of this off as it's only here to twist and distort, to mislead and to sabotage.Cool picture of Ba'al though.

        Agreed. When you go into anatta/gnosis/wuwei there is no "path", you experience the reformation of primordial Void, the instructions come as you go. That is the most direct way to the goal, you're also protected from external entities, no matter holy or demonic. It's the most direct transmission of the practice.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >That is the most direct way to the goal,
          Quite the opposite. The direct ways have already been cleared and detailed. LHP is about doubting those paths and figuring it out on your own.
          It's literally re-inventing the wheel.
          I can accept "direct transmission" in the sense that there are no intermediaries, but that by no means means "direct way".

          LHP is going out and testing every weapon combination in an MMO to determine the best setup.
          RHP is going to GameFAQS and looking it up.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The direct ways have already been cleared and detailed.
            >I can accept "direct transmission" in the sense that there are no intermediaries, but that by no means means "direct way".
            The outline is figured out, but the process is the same. I get what you mean that figuring it out would take longer, but compared to the systems of all these lineages where they start with a foundation of refining lesser energy, stepping directly on the spiritual path is still way faster. It's the difference of going 60mph with a map vs going 200mph with the way being paved as you go.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            But you dont go 200mph because you are busy paving the road. Avoid the time that takes and you quickly find your "path" beset with obstacles and false leads that slow you down even further.
            And I would very much contend with the idea of "refining lesser energies" and making a distinction of the spiritual path in the beginning and at more advanced stages.
            An unripe mango is still a mango. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I agree and feel that trying to further justify my own methods would be meaningless, I dare not take pride in this achievement, for it is really not my doing.
            I have set upon the darkness, so I will continue to weed through it.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The answer is the same whichever path you decide.
    Nirvana, Samadhi, Satori, Moksha, etc...
    You're either aware of It, or you're not.
    It's not a goal to be attained in the future. It's a realization in this very present moment.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      That's a very Zen interpretation, but building off of previous sutras, it is a goal even if realization is still met in the present moment.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        That is true.
        Desiring for desirelessness has to begin somewhere. And if that's what motivates you then do that.
        But don't put action first as a requisite for enlightenment.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          I mean I know a wrote a lot, but that's the crux of my original post: Is Desirelessness something worth pursuing? That's where the Left Hand Path traditions and Buddhism diverge.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Worth itself is something not to be desired but realized within.
            It's an intrinsic experience.
            That kind of understanding is already inside of you. It's just that your mind attributes it to the external world and goes looking for it.
            It's really an illusion.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Sure, but why is ridding yourself of desire the key to realizing that? Can not one find one's innermost value by not caring about the consequences of indulging in desire?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Not necessarily because desire leads one to suffering.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            And why is the avoidance of suffering worth pursuing? Isn't the pursuance of pleasure and enjoyment worth suffering for? Isn't that how romantic relationships often work?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Because pleasure is only temporary and leads only to further suffering.
            Life is impermanent, unsatisfying, and ultimately not you.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            The Left Hand Path views fear or avoidance of pleasure as weakness / a worse form of suffering.

            A wolf may be a crasser form of a beast compared to a lamb, eating meat, killing prey, devouring the innocent creatures - yet the lamb is weak and susceptible to more intense forms of suffering due to that weakness. For the LHP, it is better to be a wolf than a lamb, and a Buddhist is lamb.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I think the left hand path is more about actualizing one's will in accordance to what he/she deems desirable using supernatural forces.
            The mystic on the other hand seems to extinguish desiring all together. And in doing so gains the source of all forces.
            It's a subtle difference that only wisdom can appreciate.
            But even with that said one still isn't better than the other.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          That is to say, for Left Hand Path practioners, a life lived without desire is a worse form of hell than the consequences of desire; many view Buddhism as a death cult.

          Buddhism views desire as something that only grows and grows and grows if you cultivate it, leading to baser and more hellish forms of existence.

          And I think both have good points, but I don't know which one is more valuable.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            buddhism is a nonsensical self-denying cult.

            atman > anatman

            left hand > right hand

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      That's a very Zen interpretation, but building off of previous sutras, it is a goal even if realization is still met in the present moment.

      That is true.
      Desiring for desirelessness has to begin somewhere. And if that's what motivates you then do that.
      But don't put action first as a requisite for enlightenment.

      I mean I know a wrote a lot, but that's the crux of my original post: Is Desirelessness something worth pursuing? That's where the Left Hand Path traditions and Buddhism diverge.

      Worth itself is something not to be desired but realized within.
      It's an intrinsic experience.
      That kind of understanding is already inside of you. It's just that your mind attributes it to the external world and goes looking for it.
      It's really an illusion.

      That is to say, for Left Hand Path practioners, a life lived without desire is a worse form of hell than the consequences of desire; many view Buddhism as a death cult.

      Buddhism views desire as something that only grows and grows and grows if you cultivate it, leading to baser and more hellish forms of existence.

      And I think both have good points, but I don't know which one is more valuable.

      Idk I'm quite perplexed. Even in the alchemical Great Work there's a part in which you have to realize how your desires are not even "yours", but expressions of the All-One and repressing them is not always the answer. However, the Work doesn't end there. Also, some LHP buddhists I've seen here sometimes seem to think that the mere declaration that "samsara is nirvana", or the mental projection of it, is equivalent to an inner realization, while I think there's a great difference between them. At a certain point things seem to intersect with Taoism or with the no-means way of trika shaivism, and yet, isn't there something that have to "click"? Even more, at face value it looks like there's no difference between the realized in this way and an atheist (or a non-practicing religious person). Sometimes these things sound like excuses to avoid the Work. But maybe that's also a Work? Idk, in the end only within you can tell yourself if you are realizing something, if you are deluding yourself, or if the delusion is the real realization (btw things could go into an infinite loop from here, but maybe that's also the point?)

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    i was always a little rebel satanist, grew up into luciferian while people think im buddhist because i dont display my 'religion'. all paths lead to god as long as you are nonjudgmental, honest, merciful, positive. the universe is just a vibe check.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I don't believe that tbh. There are some fricked up dangerous paths.

      I can't speak to your experiences, but believe me, unless you're someone who is bad faith and has no problem comparmentalizing / finds meaning from things aside from a spiritual path, normie (and even most forms of Trad Roman Catholicism) is a fricking psychic vampire dealing with the Papacy and even Pope Francis.

      Does not lead to God, leads to delusion.

      I know we live in an age of non-commitment in many aspects of our lives, including spiritually, but it's better to have one wife and learn from other women, rather than have a harem of different personalities.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >psychic vampires are normies now
        fml

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Energy vampirism isn't some cool thing people can do, it's emphatic of a broken energy system. You're an energy cripple if you participate in energy vampirism. Considering how unhealthy normalgays are getting these days, it makes sense that they'd be energy vampires.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            But I get more healthy when I take people's life force. It's not like I don't do regular energy cultivation as well. People keep saying not to eat sickly people while having no idea how to transmute. You have no idea what the frick you're talking about do you.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You don't practice "normal energy cultivation" and also engage in psychic vampirism. You're delusional, or completely ignorant of the true nature of your condition.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >karmic debt or whatever
            shut the frick up christcuck

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          I never said that normies are psychic vampires (although they often are), I'm saying the mainstream Catholic institution is a psychic vampiric organization. It's followers are victims.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I agree a lot if not all of the clergy are literal vampires.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >What is the answer?
    It's ultimately subjective, a matter of free-will.
    LHP per your definition is "the fall" into manifestations while Buddhism is ascending back into the original Oneness. This entire process of falling and ascending is the Great Work of endless cosmic cycles of Breath of Brahama.
    Whether you want to keep playing into deeper and deeper manifestations or ascend back up densities to Home is a complete personal choice of each individual souls.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    ?t=96

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Tantric buddhism is the left hand path. I don't see the distinction. Embrace the Vajrayana path.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I think you have the wrong understanding of Buddhism. You need to go deeper into the concept of cessation of desire. The correct one is cessation for "fabricated" things.

    [...]

  8. 2 months ago
    Local Archaeologist

    Seriously if you are sitting here worrying about Pan vs. Buddhism at this point you've entirely missed the fricking lesson. It doesn't fricking matter who it is. Mysticism, occult, arcane....eastern or western. It's all the same, it just looks different to throw off and distract those who will never understand. It doesn't fricking matter if it's good or evil or anything else because once you understand one properly, the rest all fall into place. It's no more different than choosing a color scheme or changing an octave.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >It's no more different than choosing a color scheme or changing an octave.
      But those things are important. You cant just change a color willy nilly or switch the octaves of notes and expect the fashion ensemble or the musical piece to sound as good.
      Sure, one color may be the same as another, one octave the same as another, but context and composition matter, and you are suggesting a random placement of color or note will produce an equal outfit or symphony.
      If that were true we wouldnt have composers.

      • 2 months ago
        Local Archaeologist

        Why are they important?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          I just told you why.
          You cant just change a color willy nilly or switch the octaves of notes and expect the fashion ensemble or the musical piece to sound as good.
          Sure, one color may be the same as another, one octave the same as another, but context and composition matter, and you are suggesting a random placement of color or note will produce an equal outfit or symphony.
          If that were true we wouldnt have composers.

          • 2 months ago
            Local Archaeologist

            No you really didn't explain anything. You just told me about your subjectivity and your failure to understand. If you can't actually explain why it's important it's because it's not.

            Everyone here is here completely misunderstanding polarity here. Magnets, they don't rip themselves apart. They push and pull in order to achieve equilibrium. Particle physics and electricity are no different. Instead of going one way or the other. Instead of playing Morpheus' game of choice, transcend it.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Of course context and composition are subjective. EVERYTHING is subjective, fool.
            Doesnt make it unimportant.
            That you cant understand what I wrote shows the difference between artists and those without a creative streal.
            It's okay, you dont need creativity or aesthetics to be enlightened.

          • 2 months ago
            Local Archaeologist

            Well everything is not subjective. Objective and subjective are the same as LHP and RHP or other analogous concepts which I mentioned above.

            I've actually been producing and spinning for the last 15 years. Longer than I've been an archaeologist. The part you didn't connect with the music is that keys, octaves,etcetera, it doesn't matter. What does matter is how you balance them with harmonies, melodies, rhythm and other elements of musical theory and applications. As you should know if you want to make something in a certain key then you have to follow whichever that key follows. The things is though, you can change the key and modulate and it's still gong to work. Good luck with your aesthetics and shows.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It's all the same, it just looks different
            > It doesn't fricking matter if it's good or evil or anything else because once you understand one properly, the rest all fall into place. It's no more different than choosing a color scheme or changing an octave.
            These are arguments for it being subjective. The whole "once you see it properly" bit is subjectivity.
            Objective arguments would say it doesnt matter how you see it because right and wrong and these differences exist independently of the subject.
            >What does matter is how you balance them
            Which ytou cannot do if you do not see any importance in the distinction between notes.
            I dont think you are either of the things you claim.
            Since you have decided to try and use them as markers of your authority - go ahead and prove them.

          • 2 months ago
            Local Archaeologist

            I'm not sure why you assume me or anyone else wouldn't understand music notes that's pretty basic stuff right there. I don't think anyone has authority here besides moderators. I'm sorry you're so upset but I don't really care about your emotions. Like I said from the start, it really doesn't matter. If polarity and other anagogic concepts are too difficult for you, well good luck.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I've actually been producing and spinning for the last 15 years
            You brought this up. Prove it or it will be considered a lie meant to give you fake authority on musical composition.
            You have shown no evidence of this, and you have shown no understanding of music.
            You threw out nonsense and have been running scared since someone called you out on it.
            You wont get another response until you post proof or admit one of two things
            >you knew it was a worthless and stupid claim that you would never back up
            >you lied

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >and you are suggesting a random placement of color or note will produce an equal outfit or symphony.

        Not him, but chaos is never random, it is the possibility of possibility, weaving infinite interdimensional coincidences, which correlated give rise to total synchronicity, total cosmic deterministic, yet horizontal destributed, acausal/omnicausal, meta-temporal, irrational, and ever going-under. Fromany one fixation point, that point has freewill, for every flow has an active component, yet every point can devided into partial-objects, and grafted unto mass society. All order arises chaoticallly from Chaos, establishes an order to subjugate its enemies, untill in time its malice fades and that order crumbles. Chaos empowers order, so long as it is arising, or in such perpetual conflict that is re re re arises, culling its old. Yet once an order seeks to merely maintain its power, Chaos stabs it in back.

        https://i.imgur.com/Uwwf2yp.png

        >psychic vampires are normies now
        fml

        just wrongly used. feeding is active targeted draining, not just being a social person.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          1 - didnt say chaotic, I said random. So if chaos isnt random, then I'm not talking about chaos.
          2 - You still miss the point that context and composition matter. Sure you can have chaotic sound as well, but it isnt a symphony. Sure your outfit can be chaotically colored, but it necessarily removes the aesthetics of fashion.

  9. 2 months ago
    Local Archaeologist

    Why don't people understand that chads like Jesus and Buddha intentionally wrote nothing down for this exact purpose?
    RHP and LHP is just more allegorical euphemism for polarity. Positive and Negative. Conscious and Subconscious. Masculine and Feminine. Hot and Cold. Red Fish and Blue Fish.
    ...to follow any tao or mystical or gnosis or whichever flavor of the week in terms of writing or pictograph or dialogue is to only indulge in the former but never the latter. To know truth is to cast all of this off as it's only here to twist and distort, to mislead and to sabotage.Cool picture of Ba'al though.

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Experience everything or experience nothing
    I'd pick the former, OP

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >"Eros" above all

    This is thoroughly Western, and the heart of Greek mysteries/philosophy even (Zeus, Apollo & Pan -Lycaeus (wolfen); Artemis [Ursine]) & Hekate (cthonic aspect); Saturn & Kali (Game of Saturn, Peter Mark Adams) ...

    Objective Negation leads to Subjective Synthesis. Kindness to fools will appear heinous to the foolish. There's a perspectival element.

    George Grimm. Doctrine of the Buddha.
    https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.70145

    The above is the single best primer for Original Buddhism, pre-Sectarian interpolation. It's best to have a clear slate for reference, doing correspondences with material like Tibetan Bon religion, Chan & Daoisms in China, Zen et. al. and Shinto in Japan.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    LHP is schizo-based. This world is a test to overcome, by downgoing into ruin. As Nietszche said "“What is the ape to man? A laughing-stock, a thing of shame. And just the same shall man be to the Uebermensch a laughing-stock, a thing of shame.”
    >The Left Hand Path seems to value "Eros" above all, that love is what underpins Samsara or interdependant arising.
    Remember the occult meaning of love is any form of unification. According to Vivec , "The birth of God from the netchiman's wife is the abortion of kindness from love.' 36LoVS23
    And to stress the selfish(, yet noble and benevolent) nature of the LHP, "'For I have crushed a world with my left hand,' he will say, 'but in my right hand is how it could have won against me. Love is under my will only." I believe that is the true LHP, and when people say things like "an it harm none, do as thou wilt," They have already turned to the right. Reach heaven by violence.

    Schizophrenic desire is productive, it is not a lack, but the production of production according to deleuze. It flows machinically. suffering is caused when desire becomes, overgrowing, ivading into the body without organs (his term for the Void) cancerous, and is repelled violently by the paranoic machine, this happens when it desires its own repression. Just as much is suffering cause by organization, any organization becomes unbearable, your job, society in which people, live who are such people. The very human form has some degree of discomfort.

    I would say deleuze's postmodernism despite a sort of vague atheism, describes much the same thing as the Titanomachy , or the Enuma Elish from the point of view of Chaos, and Tiamat, instead of from the normal perspective of people.
    The luciferian LHP is venusion, interested in creating the perfect aesthetic world, or simply in self-image like Patrick Bateman. It is grand.

    But forget not creative entropy, scheming antireal hypervirus, weaponized intelligent delirium against society

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >The left hand path
    Awakening with just your vessel (easily lead to demonic unless extremely courageous - more personalised results & you help others on the way)

    >The right hand path
    Awakening with or for the greater good of the masses (protected by the collective but also heavily swayed by the collective and usually don't get a choice no matter what power you try contribute)

    Imo it depends on the current system, right now you're completely safe awakening to a collective consciousness state but there will be times in the future where it is not safe to do so. You'll know intuitively
    This is just my interpretation on the 2 paths. Both lead to the same thing

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >embracing desire
    What If my desire is to frick and kill babies, what then

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