As someone who doesn't really agree with Hinduism or Buddhism, I think I finally understand karma (for lack of a better term), and it doesn'...

As someone who doesn't really agree with Hinduism or Buddhism, I think I finally understand karma (for lack of a better term), and it doesn't work as simply as popular belief suggests.

After studying various forms of the occult, patterning, and similar things, I've come to the conclusion that just because someone does bad things to others, it is not, by itself, a reason to give bad karma to the person committing the wrongdoing.

My theory is that bad karma comes from the intentions of others for things to go wrong for someone. However, as is well known, the fulfillment of this intention is brutally more effective when you have a clear idea of what you want to happen and to whom. In love magic, for example, it is common for a magician to ask for a photo or a personal object of the targeted person. The object (and possibly a subsequent offering to an entity, as a complement) acts as a catalyst for the intention of the one performing the magic to ensure it is fulfilled (like a sigil does).

Taking this into consideration, it is highly unlikely that a person who harms you and about whom you know little or nothing (such as a robber who interacts with you for less than a minute in a dark alley, for example) will receive negative karma through you. Your hatred exists, your intention to cause misfortune to someone who has wronged you is there, strong and latent, but you can't channel it because you simply don't have a clear vision of who the person is. So, to sum it up, karma is an amalgamation of curses thrown at you as you live on earth; the more evil deeds you do, the more curses you will get.

This is the conclusion I have reached… What do the occult-versed anons think?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >What do the occult-versed anons think?
    It's alright, doesn't really explain the propensity for the ruling establishment to remain immune to such things though. Karama only really only makes sense to me in the context of the accumulation of good or ill will from other beings. In my opinion though, you don't need something material for your will good or ill to have an effect (I'm sure it helps though).

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It's alright, doesn't really explain the propensity for the ruling establishment to remain immune to such things though
      Well, you just gotta have a strong mind. For example, in some afro-brazilian religions, there's the concept of "closed body" (corpo fechado) which implies you are protected by a patreon entity and no evil will harm you. To explain it further, if someone, for exeample, gets shot multiple times and survive, people from this religion will say the person has a closed body. It's like a pact or something.

      If you do not roll with the religion bandwagon, I actually believe an individual with extraordinary strong will is immune to any curses as well. It's a mind game and even if you are blatant skeptical, it may actually work in your favor/protect you. If you simply firmly believe that all of this bullshit doesn't even exist, it won't affect you, but you gotta be a true believer that it's all bullshit to be immune to curses.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Please address your brainrot.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Karma is the force of inertia/ habit.
    If you pick up a habit, It Will create karma, trying you Up.
    It has nothing to do with good vs evil.
    You're mixing up talla tales of high morality of the religitards with actual wise yoga technique.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Karma is just a word that God uses to describe the excuses that he manufactures to abuse me, these excuses are usually based on lies or are just unjustifiable as excuses (like for example me thinking about the color blue), God is too moronic to realize that this makes him more evil instead of less evil. The people who do evil things to me never suffer any consequences for it no matter how dishonest or unjustifiable their intentions are because they're all part of God's troony hivemind that only exists to abuse me.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You read his post then you went to red then yellow

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    nice hat !

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >catalyst
    focus

    Thoughts on intent are correct. Consider murder versus manslaughter and that attempted murder is worse than successful involuntary manslaughter.

    >karma is an amalgamation of curses thrown at you as you live on earth; the more evil deeds you do, the more curses you will get.
    I disagree with this due to curses being something separate from karma. Someone can curse another on a whim, they can also use poppets to redirect reactive energy. But that's a story for another time.

    I enjoy that you're thinking about it instead of taking the words of random writers.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    i see karma as a sort of "balancer" thing, what you give you shall receive
    karma is best experienced when it happens quickly after anything you do, some said that when karma is experienced close to the "root" action it means the one experiencing it is close to free of "bad" karma
    theoretically we are born with some existing bad karma from our ancestors so during our lives we will experience "what is there for us already" while we accumulate even more karma from our own deeds, once you clear the past karma you'll get to experience your karma and this will bring an understanding to you because it will make sense why some things happen to you, you will know even if you don't want to accept it yet, but you will know why
    we get to experience karma from our ancestors just because they passed their genes on to their heirs, at the moment of conception each parent pass its own biological signature to the child so the child gets to have a body out of the two, the spirit of the child is by it's own it is not inherited from his parents but the body is, since we get to experience the material world through the "body" of our ancestors we get to experience their accumulated material karma which will manifest or not in our current life, whatever the child does by its on conviction it is accumulated to the main exiting karma
    some will get to experience their own karma in their life and some will get to experience only fragments of their ancestors
    once you are in your own karma you'll know it because it'll make sense to you (whether you accept it or not the knowledge is there within)

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      if there is karma it isnt passed down through generations, a better explanation is that based on the karma of a soul it will get placement in a certain body accordingly. not randomly

      and to boil down a life principle into a simple idiom is.. well it isnt that simple. its just a heuristic for robotic people and God is not robotic (as pavlov and his dogs).

      like, you cannot reduce bad karma by doing good things. likewise you cannot reduce good karma by doing bad things. these actions will incur additional karma. should call these negative and positive karma instead

      the principle good, of liberation or self actualization, is brought about by getting zero karma. this often overlooked feature breaks the idiom completely. to not understand this leaves one in perpetual samsara.

      yeah, happiness is not the goal or meaning of life. instead, it is still a form of attachment to the deficiency that is of this world (and of its creator the demuirge).

      also a saint or perfect person can forgive karma if they know you are ready. they say it takes the average person 4 lifetimes to transcend this plane of existence, but a devotee could possibly achieve it by the end of their current life.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've been learning karmic metaphysics since I was 9 years old, you're definitely onto something.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think you're closer than most to understanding it.
    What I think you're missing is that you're still mostly seeing it upside down (which is understandable because everyone has been conditioned to see it all upside down).

    The upside down view is that your actions are the beginning, and they create karma.
    But I think the true view is the other way around, that your actions are also the result of your karma. They don't create it.

    Now your view OP is somewhere in between. Because you correctly realize that action is not the beginning, and see that intention underlies it. Action simply stems from someone's intentions.
    But I don't think you've taken that to it's logical end yet.

    Consider the robber example again. The question you're asking is wrong (the question of whether they _receive_ negative karma).
    I would say the robber ALREADY has negative karma, and the act of robbing someone is merely an emanation from their negative state of being. The robbery itself doesn't cause negative karma.
    And the person who got robbed does NOT have negative karma, even if it causes them to feel bad. Because if they have good karma (i.e. they are in a higher state of being) then things like "robbery" should not exist, so feeling bad about something like a robbery is merely a _natural_ reaction to someone who dwells in a higher state (i.e. someone with "good karma").

    This also aligns with things I've heard about the original meaning of karma translated directly from ancient sanskrit texts being more like "what you give yourself". It's not meant to be some magical point system, it's a natural reflexive property of reality itself. If your soul dwells in a negative state then negative things emanate from it: such as harmful actions. Simple.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm a hindu so i'll speak from that pov .
    Karma is action. Any action you do will bear fruit. Working our way backwards,any fruits you experience that are not a direct result of your action to your knowledge must occur because of some action you committed in previous lives. Bearing negative or positive Karma is not for you or any other person to decide.
    The system is in its place. You live in it.

    An animal kills to eat. You kill it to eat it. A man living in the forest kills it to eat it. All are engaging in the same action but will face different results due to their relative position in the hierarchy of life. The animal may feel equal pain in all 3 cases but still the fruits will be different.

    Anyways you can't give bad karma to anybody. That's the work of the order put in place by god,Rtam. And yes,just because something appears wrong doesn't mean it will give you bad karma.
    For example when a farmer toils the soil before putting the seed in he is violent towards the soil but he gains no bad karma since his actions are going to help others.

    And Rtam doesn't need you to know each other personally.
    Thats why the soldiers killing people in others lands unjustly suffer back home. Their land suffers.
    Karma phala is the way the order of Rtam is maintained.
    And all this has been discussed by people far more versed in philosophy and living in far more violent and peaceful times simultaneously so i dont think we need you to give a new definition. Perhaps you should be a bit more humble and read more.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In Hinduism, Karma also reflects your dharma, as in your duty given your varna and ritual duties. Vedic rituals and karma are deeply intertwined, shaping both religious practice and philosophical thought. Vedic rituals serve as a means to accumulate positive karma, maintain cosmic order, and connect with the divine. Karma, as the law of cause and effect, underscores the moral and ethical dimensions of actions and their consequences across lifetimes. Together, they provide a framework for understanding the spiritual journey and the pursuit of liberation (moksha). Karma is usually divine in Hinduism the is to say there is some karma phala or controller who is a specific personal God. There are three types in Hinduism as well of karma. There is the accumulated karma from all past lives.
    Prarabdha Karma: Sanchita karma is the karma currently influencing one's present life.
    There is also kriyamana Karma The karma being created in the present life, which will affect future lives.

    Some of the karma depending on your tradition is actually an intrinsic part of. your atman and may never change and is part of the prarabdha Karma. Karma is not necessarily about ethics in Hinduism but a kinda metaphysical constraint that includes ethical obligations but ritual obligations. Pic is of a book describing karma form the Hindu view.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Karma in Buddhism is a type of causation, and has no divine creator or order. It is not fair. That is why Buddhists want to transcend it. It is not the only type of causation there is either but it does shape your potentiality. In Buddhism intentional actions of body, speech, and mind lead to future consequences. Each type of conisicouness you have , which is 6-8 of them, bring with them a kinda causal relationship. Central to Buddhist teachings, karma emphasizes the importance of intention (cetana) behind actions, determining whether they are wholesome (kusala) or unwholesome (akusala). Wholesome actions, motivated by positive intentions like compassion and generosity, result in positive mental states and outcomes and while unwholesome actions, driven by negative intentions such as greed, hatred, and delusion, lead to suffering, in various forms including disordering your ability to grasp reality besides negative mental states. This karmic process influences the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth (samsara), perpetuating existence in various realms of being. The ultimate aim in Buddhism is to transcend this cycle Through understanding and transforming karma, individuals can break free from the cycle of suffering and attain lasting cessation of dukkha. Pic is of a book on it.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Is this some ai summary?
      Coz vedic rituals aren't the way to gain substantial karma. Most vedic rituals are duties. Not doing them will add upto bad karma. Doing them is simply being dutiful.
      And the last paragraph is weird. Atman is pure and beyond all actions including karma. That's the basic tenet of hinduism. Atman takes up the bodies and lives the consequences of karma while remaining unchanged.
      Hindus don't consider religion and life to be separate. For a warrior,the primary way for him to follow dharma is to fight and die. Similarly a brahmana follows his dharma when he learns and teaches. Worshipping gods is largely a duty.
      And wendy doniger is a terrible example of a writer on hindusim.

      https://i.imgur.com/QKUISS6.jpeg

      It is important to note that in Hinduism not all karma is individual based. In Hinduism, while karma is primarily viewed as an individual phenomenon where each person's actions influence their future lives, there are elements of collective or clan-based karma. This includes the concept of ancestral karma (Pitru Karma), where the actions of ancestors can affect their descendants, leading to rituals like Shraddha to mitigate negative effects. Additionally, duties and responsibilities specific to one's caste or clan (Jati Dharma) imply that fulfilling these roles generates positive karma for individuals and their families. Community rituals, such as Vedic yajnas and festivals, are also believed to create collective merit that benefits all participants and affect the community. Some obligations are also entirely social. You may also have a Gotra, patrilineal lineage supposed to connect your family to a Vedic Rishi, social practices are connected to it and violating it causes negative karma for you and any children you have. It is supposed to play a role in who you will marry and is designed to prevent inbreeding by prohibiting unions within the same gotra. Gotra also plays a role in religious rituals, honoring the lineage and ancestors. Pic is of an early important text setting up the system.

      All karma is individual based. Communal worships grant each worshipper differently. And these are perhaps the specific rituals focused on gaining good karma as opposed to regular rituals.
      Ancestral karma is also passed along the lineage but that doesn't mean that any random person is born and suffers the consequences. If your karma matches the specific lineage,you are born there(hence the caste system). You are not privileged by birth but by the merits of your previous lives.
      Gotra connects you to a pravara,a sage of olden time to whom your family traces its ancestry.
      Pitru rina is a debt owed to your ancestors since you owe them this life. That's not really focused on gotra but like gotra helps aim your rituals at the specific ancestors.

      Now for community rituals you can think of prayers for rain. Now while the entire community benefits from rain the specific sponsors of the rituals,if any,get additional merits.

      The post really jumbled up far and disconnects views.

      https://i.imgur.com/CNSPz4u.jpeg

      Karma in Buddhism is a type of causation, and has no divine creator or order. It is not fair. That is why Buddhists want to transcend it. It is not the only type of causation there is either but it does shape your potentiality. In Buddhism intentional actions of body, speech, and mind lead to future consequences. Each type of conisicouness you have , which is 6-8 of them, bring with them a kinda causal relationship. Central to Buddhist teachings, karma emphasizes the importance of intention (cetana) behind actions, determining whether they are wholesome (kusala) or unwholesome (akusala). Wholesome actions, motivated by positive intentions like compassion and generosity, result in positive mental states and outcomes and while unwholesome actions, driven by negative intentions such as greed, hatred, and delusion, lead to suffering, in various forms including disordering your ability to grasp reality besides negative mental states. This karmic process influences the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth (samsara), perpetuating existence in various realms of being. The ultimate aim in Buddhism is to transcend this cycle Through understanding and transforming karma, individuals can break free from the cycle of suffering and attain lasting cessation of dukkha. Pic is of a book on it.

      Buddha sees the world as a place of suffering and evil. That's why his view of karma is so different. Hindus don't see anything as evil just that somethings are bad for the greater good. So that influences their view of karma.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No, I just did some academic research on this for classes. The Mimasa Purva darshan disagrees and holds only Vedic rituals produce karma. They are not the only way in every other tradition though. One of the innate superiorites given to a Brahmin for example is the ability to perform rituals. Some narratives like Ramayana Ramayana, the Shudra ascetic Shambuka was killed by Lord Rama for performing penances which were reserved for those of priestly birth. Some Shakti traditions hold the ability to eat animals sacrificed and the animal sacrificed at rituals is also reserved for a good birth.

        Although, karma in Hinduism does affect each worshipper differently. There are social karmas that affect whole groups. Pre-Vedic Hinduism did have a pure system of clan based karma where that was the ultimate type of karma. Contemporary does not go that far. It not necessarily the case that a person is not privileged by birth. Some people are in Hinduism. Some communities actually are identified that way.

        Buddhism does not believe in evil proper but instead as causes and conditions that create different types of dukkha. Ignorance is the source of the causes of conditions of dukkha in the form of rebirth, mental and physical pain and displeasure, and metaphysical impermancen and dependency. Pic is philosophy book exploring The Buddhist view.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It is indeed stated that papa as sins produces lower reincarnations in Hinduism. In the Gita for example “women, traders, peasants, and servants” as born out of ‘papayoni.’ (ibid, 9:32) However, since each varna is supposed to do given their varna and duties, they will only produce karma for that role. Unless, they achieve moksha.For example in the Gita , it is stated the Vaishyas are supposed to be doing “[f]arming, cow herding, and trade”, while the Shudras are “characterised by service.” (ibid, 18:44) And then it tells you that “Men attain perfection by devoting themselves to their separate tasks. … A man finds perfection by worshipping through his own,” thus fixing each varnas . (ibid, 18:45-46)

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The translation is misguided. Krishna doesn't say women are born out of papa yoni but he says that "women,...,and those born out of a papa yoni".
            And while your actions are definitely put within a box their results certainly are not.
            The same result a brahmin gains by studying and practicing austerities is gained by a kshyatriya when he gets killed on a battle field.
            Infact its easier to gain better karma the as you move down to other castes.
            For example a brahmin being a non vegetarian may gain sins but a shudra won't since he is not held up to the same rules that a brahmana has to follow.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Like I said,there's no superiority by birth since the birth itself is determined by past life actions.
          And yes mimansa does hold the view that only vedic rituals produce good karma but the specific rituals they talk about are not practiced by even the brahmins on a regular basis.
          Anyways,since the birth itself is determined by our past actions there's no "privelege" as such.

          "Clan based karma" and "pre vedic hinduism" are some things i'd like to know.
          Afaik clans were the way societies were structured in the old days. There's no hinduism pre veda. There's literally no aryan religion pre veda.
          Veda are arranged in a family based structure suggesting that worship and composition of hymns including the instructions were passed in clans but there was nothing strictly clan based.
          There were however other "tribes" that competed with the vedic tribes. The tribes contained clans in them. The Indians are descendants of the bharata tribe.

          Again,according to Hindus,no person is privileged by birth since the higher birth itself is a result of past life karma.

          Sure Buddha doesn't go as far as to consider evil to a separate entity with agency like satan or something but for him the world is a source of pain,of misery. So his view of karma is focused on escaping the cycle while the Hindu view is of transcending it yet excelling in it .

          The bhagavad gita is the only book necessary to know all this. Krishna literally says in perhaps the most hindu way that he engages in action in the best possible ways despite being free of the things that bind men to the world since the world follows men of excellent nature and if he doesn't behave well they will follow him and abandon their duties.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It is important to note that in Hinduism not all karma is individual based. In Hinduism, while karma is primarily viewed as an individual phenomenon where each person's actions influence their future lives, there are elements of collective or clan-based karma. This includes the concept of ancestral karma (Pitru Karma), where the actions of ancestors can affect their descendants, leading to rituals like Shraddha to mitigate negative effects. Additionally, duties and responsibilities specific to one's caste or clan (Jati Dharma) imply that fulfilling these roles generates positive karma for individuals and their families. Community rituals, such as Vedic yajnas and festivals, are also believed to create collective merit that benefits all participants and affect the community. Some obligations are also entirely social. You may also have a Gotra, patrilineal lineage supposed to connect your family to a Vedic Rishi, social practices are connected to it and violating it causes negative karma for you and any children you have. It is supposed to play a role in who you will marry and is designed to prevent inbreeding by prohibiting unions within the same gotra. Gotra also plays a role in religious rituals, honoring the lineage and ancestors. Pic is of an early important text setting up the system.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Karma is literally your entanglement with manifest effects that stem from causality. And there no good/bad karma, karma is a dynamic that accelerates experiential growth, so interaction with karma is sought by some, and other just don't want any interaction with karma at all, which is the whole point behind the escaping from samsara. It's not about choosing between good or bad, it's about choosing between karma or the lack of that dynamic.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That actually makes sense.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >So, to sum it up, karma is an amalgamation of curses thrown at you as you live on earth; the more evil deeds you do, the more curses you will get.
    Gurdjieff talks about this
    in Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson there's a story narrated by a guy whose job it is to pull a steam whistle every day:
    >"I sensed with the whole of my being that my interference in the communal life could have no other result than the very sensation that had been proceeding in me all this time.
    >"And indeed, everyone awakened from his sweet morning slumbers by the blast of my steam whistle must doubtless curse me by everything under the sun—just me, the cause of this infernal din—and thanks to this, there must surely flow from all directions toward my person vibrations of all kinds of malice.
    >"On that memorable morning, after performing my duties, while sitting in my usual mood of depression in a neighboring 'dukhan' and eating 'hachi' with garlic, I continued to ponder, and I came to the conclusion that if I should curse beforehand all those who are outraged by my service for the benefit of some of them, then according to the book I had read the night before, however much all those still lying in the 'realm of idiocy'—that is, between sleep and drowsiness—might curse me, it would have no effect on me at all.
    >"And in fact, since I began to do this, I no longer feel that 'instinctive uneasiness. ' "

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      lol, interesting.

      Now that you meantioned it, I am thinking about people who do cold calling for a living, those people are always stressed, depressed and prone to sickness.

      Eveything makes sense now.

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