>2 billion people pray towards it. >it has dark black Meteor at corner that was sent down by god

>2 billion people pray towards it
>it has dark black Meteor at corner that was sent down by god
>you have to circle around it 7 times when u make a pilgrimage

What’s mystery behind it and have any of you gone there

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Saturn. It’s always Saturn.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Would u go there

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In Islamic lore the true Kaaba (it's called bait ul maamur) is in the seventh heaven and is orbited by countless angels. Guess what the seventh heaven is? It's literally in Islamic lore that bait ul maamur is on Saturn!

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      yes then it's satan

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what if you lose count?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They make you go around 7 times in the opposite direction as punishment.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It was inherited from Syraic and Arabic paganism. In syraic paganism , it is called baetyl. The current stone is actually damaged. Before Islam it was used by Arabic pagans to worship worshipping of Bel and Hubal. It was actually gendered in some narratives, that is one side was female and the other male. It was not limited to those figures and we know that other religions used it as a site of worship, just the ruling tribes used it for those two mainly. The one in Mecca is actually taken from Syria. During the early Islamic period there were other sites with meterors that were destroyed. We know this because various tribes and Kings had their own sites for them. The King of Yemen, Abu Karb Asa’d, came to Mecca in the 5th Century AD. He built the Ka’ba similar to the Ka’ba found in Yemen. [See A. Jamme. W. F, Sabean Inscriptions from Mehram Bilqis (Ma’rib), the John Hopkins Press, Baltimore, 1962, vol. III, p. 387.]

    We know that tawaf around the Kaaba is a ritualistic depiction of the seven known heavenly bodies in Ptolemaic systems. The Quraysh ruled Mecca and rebuilt the pre-Islamic Kaaba around 608 CE with alternating courses of masonry and wood. The Qarmatians damaged it heavily. They robbed feces and semen on it to desecrate it.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's demons

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We know that Arabic Christians, most likely from the Ancient Church of the East put religious icons on it. One theory is that it was to expel what they believed to be demons. This is back when they still used Icons. We know that the Kaaba in Mecca was only used starting around 600 CE. We know that some Jordanian Arabs identified it with the goddesses Cybele in Hellenistic religion. Which was a major religion in the region. It was also closely tied to the monarchy of the Jordanian Arabs. The Syrian Roman Emperor, Elagabalus , was mocked by the Romans for worshipping this Goddess interestingly enough. It was very matriarchal religion and culture at the time.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I should point out that this religion believed this Goddess had multiple male consorts. I can't state if Elagabalus was the male consort that roughly was equivalent to Hubal. The religion would have changed a lot by the time of the stones transfer to Mecca. Baal and Hubal differ a little bit actually. Hubal amongst the Arabs of Mecca, was a war God and was as source of divination. They would toss arrows to tell the future. His other roles are kinda mysterious.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What about satanic quranic verses

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They are a left over of pre-orthodox Islam. Basically, Islam as we have it now is a fairly recent invention from around 1200 CE. Before Orthodoxy: The Satanic Verses in Early Islam by Shahab Ahmed is an academic book on these narratives. They are most likely left overs of gnostic Gospel, non-orthodox Christianity, and other sources. Early Islamic sources seem to capture that these early narratives were seen as being a guarantee for prophet hood. This obviously means that prophet hood was not the same in early Islam from later materials.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Whatever you said about Hubal may have been accurate, but this is completely insane.
            The black rock is the cornerstone of the original structure, which was constructed with meteoric rock, and all that remains from it. This is its only significance in Islam.

            What about satanic quranic verses

            This story claims that the when reciting the Quran, Muhammad SAW once incorrectly recited a line that the Quraysh would recite while praising al-Lat, Manat and al-Uzza at the Kaaba, calling them "exalted cranes whose intercession is to be hoped for," to a party of the Quraysh whom he was preaching to, before retracting the statement. This is not found in any of the books of hadith and only survives as hearsay through biographers, who all trace the claim to one israelite named Sad.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If you want academic sources on the Kaaba try Arabia and the Arabs: From the Bronze Age to the Coming of Islam by Robert G. Hoyland . The Syriac World as mentioned above also touches on this. This is all just academic stuff.

            If you want stuff on pre orthodox Islam try Early Muslim Dogma A Source-Critical Study by Michael Cook. For even earlier work before Islamic sources proper try Seeing Islam As Others Saw It A Survey and Evaluation of Christian, israeli and Zoroastrian Writings on Early Islam by Robert G. Hoyland. Once again all academic survey material.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Is their any spiritual or supernatural aspects of Islam

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There are a lot of elements of antiquity medico-religious practices in early Islam. Medicine of the Prophet is still an element of this. Some of this got flattened in recension practices. There is also some interpretations of works like Ephraim the Syrians Hymns on Paradise. Although, taking literally in Islam , it lost its Syraic word play. Ibn Ishaq's Sirah preserves elements of Arabic Paganism nowhere else found. Some interesting narratives such as Nun the Whale are also preserved in some early sources too. Here are some early materials on this whale. This most likely is a type of pagan mysticism that got flattened off and combined with israeli mysticism.

            It is a whale (الحوت), which on it the Earths.

            At-Tabari tafsir on 68:1 [9]

            <Nun> - the whale (الحوت), which is under the Earth the seventh.

            Tafsir Al-Qurtubi on 68:1

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes friend, Islam is founded on the Quran which is the direct speech of God, it has incredible power and majesty. Over a billion of us perform the same prayers facing the same house of God 5 times a day. This is the teaching of the unity of God and Him being above everything else, and any association; the truth at which many others grasp.

            Sorta, not quite. Elements of it have older origins. This is called archaism. Narratives of Islamic Origins The Beginnings of Islamic Historical Writing by Fred McGraw Donner is the academic text on that. Most of the early fiqh has origins in Persian and Quraish tribe practices. A common example is the banning of adoption in the literature for example and the use of wet-nurses to track lineage. These archaic elements were used early to justify authority for a nascent religious community.

            Your academic studies are worthless. You have not come close to scratching the surface of Islam. Please stop insulting Islam with your ignorance and try to learn about it on its own terms.

            There are a lot of elements of antiquity medico-religious practices in early Islam. Medicine of the Prophet is still an element of this. Some of this got flattened in recension practices. There is also some interpretations of works like Ephraim the Syrians Hymns on Paradise. Although, taking literally in Islam , it lost its Syraic word play. Ibn Ishaq's Sirah preserves elements of Arabic Paganism nowhere else found. Some interesting narratives such as Nun the Whale are also preserved in some early sources too. Here are some early materials on this whale. This most likely is a type of pagan mysticism that got flattened off and combined with israeli mysticism.

            It is a whale (الحوت), which on it the Earths.

            At-Tabari tafsir on 68:1 [9]

            <Nun> - the whale (الحوت), which is under the Earth the seventh.

            Tafsir Al-Qurtubi on 68:1

            The Prophet SAW was raised surrounded by a whole culture and masses of people who were pagan and had been for centuries or millennia. Most of what you are talking about has no religious significance. Trying to explain what the letters at the beginning of surahs mean is an exercise in futility. Tabari came centuries after the Prophet SAW and what he said is based on folklore, and baseless; your interpretation is a product of knowing nothing about the subject.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            All this sounds like the arrogance of mohamed
            Islam worships aliens like every other abrahamic religion

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Rather, the confidence of knowledge of the truth. The confidence is not in myself, but in Islam.
            God is the creator of all that exists. Have you ever read any religious scripture?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            God is in us all, be confident in that

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What does that mean? Nothing about you is God. That's a very arrogant thing to say. God created space and time. Space and time are actually one thing, and like God created all that is in space, so too did He create all that is in time; so even the thoughts you're having as you read this post are caused and determined by God. After our deaths, God will gather us and judge us for what we did and what we did not do. I'm not sure what room there is for "worship of aliens" in this understanding.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nun does not refer to a letter. It should however be remembered that the original "rasm" or consonantal text for the Qur'an lacked the vowel markings which in this case marks the word as being in the genitive.This also would be odd because it would then be saying the seven heavens rest upon a letter. Many of these letters may have origins in Syriac lectionaries as well. That got imported. Syraic scripts are notoriously difficult to translate and in some cases can even be read in Arabic albeit gibberish or poetic sounded. You might think it is the word "ink" in the nominative case. The Qur'an used the word مِدَادًا (midaadan) for "ink" in the verse 18:109, while it used the word نون (nun) to mean "whale" in the verse 21:87. So it is more probable, that the meaning of nun here is "whale".

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Are you the same anon referencing orientalist garbage, or the one saying you are a non-religious muslim? I thought both posts I replied to there were the same anon, apologies if not.
            Anyway, if you are referring to the beginning of Surah al-Qalam, the Quran I have here shows the letter ن and not the word نون . It is a settled matter that these letters in the openings of these surahs are inexplicable.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I don't know what you are looking at. I never said I was an exmuslim or a non-praciting legally identifying Muslim either. There are a lot of canonically or accepted Koranic transmissions that build from the Uthmantic recension texts. For example, the Cairo 1924 edition uses the reading of Hafs from ‘Asim. Another popular readings is the Warsh. There are two associated with each of the seven or ten canonical readers. There are a lot more noncanonical readings and texts though. An example would be the Ṣanʽā’ 1 palimpsest which includes omissions, substitutions, and inclusions of new words and phrases. Most non-canonical readings are asserted to be read by Muhammad’s companions too. Although narratively, the seven ahruf are described as dialects this is not actually accurate. Below is a site that collects academically peer-reviewed articles on Koranic variants. The Quran in It’s Historical Context by Gabriel Said Reynolds is a good academic work that describes the Uthmanic recension and some variants besides providing a literature review of studies of early Islam.
            It is worth noting that Koran is not the only text in Islam though. In Islam, the Koran is the literal word of God and is an unchanging and eternal word. However, you are also supposed to read it along Hadith collections and Sirah or the biography of the prophet such as Ibn Ishaq.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Below is a text that collects variants of rasm but of recitation and other features. Just to continue. In Islam, there are supposed to be no variants of any type or any change to it for that reason. Examples of the Koran being asserted to being the literal word of God in the Koran include 15:9, 16:103 and 44:58. It is worth noting that the text involves being abrogated to avoid contradictions or to interpret commands as well. A core feature discussed by Madhabs and legal literature in Islam. For example, there is impossible inheritance math. It is in the Quran 4:11-12, 4:176. This is abrogated in the Hadith.

            Quran Variants

            https://quranvariants.wordpress.com/

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Are you a bot? None of this has any relevance to anything, except establishing that there are different readings of the Quran, while ignoring that none show the word for whale in place of ن or that you're demonstrating ignorance of Islamic teaching regarding those letters while telling me elementary school stuff like that we also read Hadith in addition to the Quran. You don't sound like you're qualified to make statements about our religion. What you said earlier is total nonsense. You can have the entire Islamic religion with texts from before the year 900 and you say it was steeped in paganism until 1200, like you missed the most basic point of the religion.

            Below is a text that collects variants of rasm but of recitation and other features. Just to continue. In Islam, there are supposed to be no variants of any type or any change to it for that reason. Examples of the Koran being asserted to being the literal word of God in the Koran include 15:9, 16:103 and 44:58. It is worth noting that the text involves being abrogated to avoid contradictions or to interpret commands as well. A core feature discussed by Madhabs and legal literature in Islam. For example, there is impossible inheritance math. It is in the Quran 4:11-12, 4:176. This is abrogated in the Hadith.

            Quran Variants

            https://quranvariants.wordpress.com/

            A great example, you saying the Quran can be abrogated by Hadith. This contradicts the most basic principles of the religious sciences. Moreover, the majority of scholars rightfully reject the concept of abrogation in its entirety. There is no abrogation in the Quran or in Islam.
            You can talk about minor differences in pronunciation or diacritics, or a single variant text from a flawed transmission which never has any meaningful or substantial difference at all in any of its variations, and claim this somehow undermines Islam, but the lengths at which you go to grasp at straws only do the opposite.

            It’s an open forum, Anon. Stop being a POS.

            He has the right to post the fantastical, eccentric and uninformed theories of some homosexual british and french stationed in the middle east after world war 1, that doesn't mean I won't take a dump on him for it.

            If you want Islamic sources on the whale here are some resources that go through Islamic claims about the whale. Academic works don't really take Islamic sources as too meaningful though.

            Here is another source taking look at more Hadith and Sirah.

            https://theislamissue.wordpress.com/2023/01/18/the-nun-whale-and-its-origins-in-early-islam/

            This source is a bit more academic and entertains some of the possible origins of it.

            [...]
            Technically, if you do believe in Qadar, God predetermined him to believe in that and will send him to hell for it too. It is prewritten in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz as well.

            Say: ‘Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector’: and on Allah let the Believers put their trust.”
            Quran Quran 9:51

            Say: For myself I have no power to benefit, nor power to hurt, save that which Allah willeth. Had I knowledge of the Unseen, I should have abundance of wealth, and adversity would not touch me. I am but a warner, and a bearer of good tidings unto folk who believe.
            Quran 7:188

            Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, 'No 'Adha (i.e. no contagious disease is conveyed to others without Allah's permission); nor (any evil omen m the month of) Safar; nor Hama" A bedouin said, "O Allah's Apostle! What about the camels which, when on the sand (desert) look like deers, but when a mangy camel mixes with them they all get infected with mange?" On that Allah s Apostle said, "Then who conveyed the (mange) disease to the first (mangy) camel?"
            Sahih Bukhari 7:71:665

            >God predetermined him to believe in that and will send him to hell for it too
            Everything being predetermined still doesn't absolve people of their blame. If you ask why there is blame, you will find that it is a necessary component of this existence. If you want to ask why Allah created the universe, the answer is to humble yourself.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, but he’s being polite. I just think you should be polite back.

            Or dump on this guy:

            I have been there 2wice in my life (both times with my family)

            That place feels dark af IMO. I really didnt like it. Its run by an evil family (the house of Saud), and they arent even muslim. Its also run by a very corrupt secret police force that kidnaps and molests people on a regular basis (they tried kidnapping my mom and my cousin on separate occasions). Luckily the rest of my big family was close enough to stop them.

            Everyone there is dirty as frick as well. I never want to go back, and my time in Mecca is a huge reason why i am not a muslim anymore.

            Like the energy at a place like Kyoto or Indian temples just feel soooo much better

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What the Saudis have done in Makkah is disgraceful. Granted, I have heard the situation has improved dramatically the past few years. But how am I supposed to be mad at him and not the guy saying Islam worships aliens?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I 100% agree with you. We definitely don’t worship aliens.

            Politeness aside… that is fake newsey and irresponsible to post on an open forum.

            I take back what I said. Sorry for saying you were being a POS.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            All is well brother, perhaps my language was a bit harsh. It is hard to keep one's words in line on a site like this. God bless.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What is the meteorite and why do u prostrate towards it

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Abrogation is literally in the Koran.

            Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

            Qur'an 2:106

            Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book.

            Quran 13:39

            And when We change (one) communication for (another) communication, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say: You are only a forger. Nay, most of them do not know.

            Here are some Hadith on it.

            I said to 'Uthman bin 'Affan (while he was collecting the Qur'an) regarding the Verse:-- "Those of you who die and leave wives ..." (2.240) "This Verse was abrogated by an other Verse. So why should you write it? (Or leave it in the Qur'an)?" 'Uthman said. "O son of my brother! I will not shift anything of it from its place."
            Sahih Bukhari 6:60:53

            The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) abrogated some of his commands by others, just as the Qur'an abrogates some part with the other.

            Sahih Muslim 003:0675

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This is the abrogation of the Torah and the Gospel, not the abrogation of anything in the Quran.
            As for the narrations you mention, they do not come from the Prophet SAW, and if you read 2:240 and the verse that supposedly abrogated it they do not address the same subject.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Here is a commentary on Koran 2.240 and the verse. It is very clearly abrogated. There is no abrogation of previous revelations. The Koran assumes the previous texts are really what is captured in the Koran.

            Those of you who die leaving widows should bequeath for them a year’s maintenance without forcing them out.1 But if they choose to leave, you are not accountable for what they reasonably decide for themselves. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.

            Abbas - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs

            ((In the case of) those who are about to die and leave behind them wives, they should bequeath unto their wives a provision) regarding their wealth (for the year) sustenance and habitation for a year (without turning them out) of the houses of their husbands, (but if they go out) of their own accord, or if they marry before the lapse of a year (there is no sin on you) on the inheritors of the deceased to stop providing sustenance and habitation after she leaves the house of her husband or remarries (in that which they do of themselves) nor is there any blame on them in what the wives do to themselves (within their rights) looking forward to remarriage, making themselves beautiful for this purpose. This, i.e. the sustenance due on the deceased towards any wife he leaves behind, was however abrogated by her inheritance. (Allah is Mighty) for He is vengeful towards any that leaves what He has commanded, (Wise) in that He abrogated apportioning a year of sustenance and habitation to the wife whose husband is deceased and substituted it with what is due to her of inheritance: a quarter or eighth of the deceased's wealth.

            2.240-242 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir

            Ayah (2:240) was abrogated
            The majority of the scholars said that this Ayah (2:240) was abrogated by the Ayah (2:234), what Allah said:

            يَتَرَبَّصْنَ بِأَنفُسِهِنَّ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ وَعَشْرًا

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Here is an interview with an academic Islamic studies scholar on abrogation. Here are the time stamps.

            The Truth About the Quran with Harvard Professor Shady Nasser

            00:00:00 Introduction
            00:02:11 0. Do Academics Care About Proving Divine Authorship?
            00:06:12 1. Did Muhammad Have/Intend to Have a Physical Quran?
            00:11:55 2. Can It Be Confirmed that Today’s Quran was Recited by Muhammad?
            00:18:11 3. Can it Be Verified that the First Physical Quran is Identical to Today’s Quran?
            00:20:37 4. Can it Be Proven that the Quran Was Accurately Compiled?
            00:30:26 5. Was the Quran Invented by Others?
            00:36:39 6. Is the Quran Miraculously Unique?
            00:40:46 7. Is the Quran Objectively Inimitable?
            00:46:13 8. Is the Quran Clear?
            00:51:00 9.1 Is the Quran Linguistically Flawless?
            00:57:50 9.2 Is the Content Flawless?
            01:10:50 10. Who wrote the Quran?

            Short Answers:
            0. No.
            1. Difficult to Say
            2. No.
            3. Not entirely, but close.
            4. No.
            5. Difficult to say.
            6. No.
            7. No.
            8. Partially yes, partially no.
            9.1. No.
            9.2 Hard to say.
            10. Depends on what you believe.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It’s an open forum, Anon. Stop being a POS.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If you want Islamic sources on the whale here are some resources that go through Islamic claims about the whale. Academic works don't really take Islamic sources as too meaningful though.

            Here is another source taking look at more Hadith and Sirah.

            https://theislamissue.wordpress.com/2023/01/18/the-nun-whale-and-its-origins-in-early-islam/

            This source is a bit more academic and entertains some of the possible origins of it.

            What does that mean? Nothing about you is God. That's a very arrogant thing to say. God created space and time. Space and time are actually one thing, and like God created all that is in space, so too did He create all that is in time; so even the thoughts you're having as you read this post are caused and determined by God. After our deaths, God will gather us and judge us for what we did and what we did not do. I'm not sure what room there is for "worship of aliens" in this understanding.

            Technically, if you do believe in Qadar, God predetermined him to believe in that and will send him to hell for it too. It is prewritten in al-Lawh al-Mahfooz as well.

            Say: ‘Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector’: and on Allah let the Believers put their trust.”
            Quran Quran 9:51

            Say: For myself I have no power to benefit, nor power to hurt, save that which Allah willeth. Had I knowledge of the Unseen, I should have abundance of wealth, and adversity would not touch me. I am but a warner, and a bearer of good tidings unto folk who believe.
            Quran 7:188

            Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, 'No 'Adha (i.e. no contagious disease is conveyed to others without Allah's permission); nor (any evil omen m the month of) Safar; nor Hama" A bedouin said, "O Allah's Apostle! What about the camels which, when on the sand (desert) look like deers, but when a mangy camel mixes with them they all get infected with mange?" On that Allah s Apostle said, "Then who conveyed the (mange) disease to the first (mangy) camel?"
            Sahih Bukhari 7:71:665

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            a lot lol. Look up Djinn. Muslims all acknowledge unseen beings that live tangent with us, that we can contact and can manipulate our reality

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Djinn in Islam are actually not just elements of Arabic paganism. They do have that. They also have elements of pre-socratic Greek philosophy from antiquity added. They are held to be made of smokeless fire. Pure elements in Galen and amongst some stoics was unchanging. Djinn are made of smokeless fire for this reason, it is a type of pure fire substance. Here is a Koranic reference for it.

            And the jinn did He create of smokeless fire.
            Quran 55:15

            Whereas in presocratic views pure elements rise over time through the heavens. In Islam, this is not allowed because God's throne is above. They are prevented from rising. Sometimes they are equivocated with devils as well.

            And (remember) when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, and they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He was of the jinn, so he rebelled against his Lord's command. Will ye choose him and his seed for your protecting friends instead of Me, when they are an enemy unto you? Calamitous is the exchange for evil-doers.

            Quran 18:50

            They have their own culture and can learn different langues.

            1. Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind,
            2. The King of mankind, 3. The god of mankind, 4. From the evil of the sneaking whisperer, 5. Who whispereth in the hearts of mankind,

            6. Of the jinn and of mankind.

            Quran 114:1-6

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No friend, I use Islamic sources and don't need to consult your moronic orientalists. The bulk of Islamic scholarship was already established in the 9th century. 1200 CE is a ridiculous cutoff point to use unless you consider the Mongol invasion an event horizon, or you wanted to somehow suggest that the rise of Asharism and Maturidism came with a whitewashing of the previous history of the Mutazila against the Atharis along with assorted nutters like Ismailis and Khawarij. That would be pretty stupid.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But most scholars of fiqh like abu tamiyah came before 1200

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sorta, not quite. Elements of it have older origins. This is called archaism. Narratives of Islamic Origins The Beginnings of Islamic Historical Writing by Fred McGraw Donner is the academic text on that. Most of the early fiqh has origins in Persian and Quraish tribe practices. A common example is the banning of adoption in the literature for example and the use of wet-nurses to track lineage. These archaic elements were used early to justify authority for a nascent religious community.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Its gotta be because this is the most ridiculous moronic shit can you imagine being an intelligent lifeform visiting here and seeing this they will think you are crazy because you are

  5. 4 weeks ago
    unironically Ahmed

    non religious muslim here, I am very knowledgeable about islam though, do you have any questions? I can answer them.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Are extremists deviants or are they on right path while most Muslims don’t take their religion as serious

      • 4 weeks ago
        unironically Ahmed

        it's complicated
        it's a tricky question, I am gonna give a very putin answer, lore dump warning

        the difference can be traced back to the medieval times, since the first 2 centuries of islam are pretty much a black box and everything about early islamic history was written 2 centuries after the prophet's death.

        during the middle ages there was a conflict between the literalists and the rationalists who adopted and embraced greek philosophy and wisdom from previous religions.
        tldr
        rationalists believed that you should start with reason first, and and then compare it to scripture. reason can never be wrong. so if you find contradiction between scripture and reason, you should correct your interpretation of the scripture.
        literalists believed that you should start with scripture first, and then compare it to reason. scripture is the ultimate truth and can never be wrong. so if you find any contradictions between it and reason. it just means that your reason is flawed, you should revise it, or maybe you don't have enough intelligence or data to arrive at the facts displayed in the scripture.

        eventually the literalists won and became the mainstream. there was an attempt at reviving and saving rationalism during the late 19th century and early 20th century, which was adopted by more secularist thinkers and politicians (arab nationalists and socialists) but that failed because of the cold war and the west's backing for the salafis to contrast soviet interest.

        to be continued..

        • 4 weeks ago
          unironically Ahmed

          rationalists usually have a realist materialist view of scripture and islamic history where they believe that the history and teachings of islam shouldn't be followed and imitated blindly but should be understood through their historical context to understand their true meaning and the wisdom behind them.
          therefore, a rationalist might believe that only the core theological spiritual aspect of islam is immutable while the other practical aspect is dynamic and changes as the material conditions change. in other words, god would have asked his followers to do different things if islam started in different settings. the material conditions of that period shaped the way we organized and structured society at that time. therefore the material conditions of today should also shape the way we organize and structure society today.

          that was basically the same criticism Jesus had towards the pharisees who were obsessed with the small actions of the law without understanding what the law was. this is what he meant with saying that he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. fulfilling the law is understanding its intention and if you can do that you understand the overall framework of god and you can change and shape the law to harmonize it with the ever-changing material world.

          ie you should look back at the early muslim mission in a similar way christians view the mission of the israelites, it's a mission that was meant for the israelites at the time and worked with the conditions of the time. god revised his instructions multiple times. sometimes ordering things that sound absurd to us today. but it should never be held as a model that we aim at reproducing.

          to be continued...

          • 4 weeks ago
            unironically Ahmed

            as I said, during the late 19th century and early 20th century there was an attempt at reviving this and embracing a more westernized secular rationalist interpretation of the quran and model the islamic world after christian europe. and that was pretty successful in the beginning. secularist nationalists and socialists had great popularity, and middle eastern society was heading towards a more "liberal" and secular worldview. but the cold war happened, and those people were aligned with communists so the US supported the other group, salafi fundamentalists they helped saudi arabia spread they ideology and open religous schools in central asia and the middle east. which basically lead to modern islamic extremism.

            most muslims are kinda stuck in a limbo between these two
            who is deviant and who is a real muslim? that's subjective, but I am biased and I believe extremists are deviant, because they deviated from the abrahamic tradition and the eastern mediterranean history and culture in general. they alienated islam from christianity and the west (islam in it's origin is a western not eastern religion, i know that sounds weird but it's true) and turned it into a weird orientalist eastern religion.

        • 4 weeks ago
          unironically Ahmed

          rationalists usually have a realist materialist view of scripture and islamic history where they believe that the history and teachings of islam shouldn't be followed and imitated blindly but should be understood through their historical context to understand their true meaning and the wisdom behind them.
          therefore, a rationalist might believe that only the core theological spiritual aspect of islam is immutable while the other practical aspect is dynamic and changes as the material conditions change. in other words, god would have asked his followers to do different things if islam started in different settings. the material conditions of that period shaped the way we organized and structured society at that time. therefore the material conditions of today should also shape the way we organize and structure society today.

          that was basically the same criticism Jesus had towards the pharisees who were obsessed with the small actions of the law without understanding what the law was. this is what he meant with saying that he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. fulfilling the law is understanding its intention and if you can do that you understand the overall framework of god and you can change and shape the law to harmonize it with the ever-changing material world.

          ie you should look back at the early muslim mission in a similar way christians view the mission of the israelites, it's a mission that was meant for the israelites at the time and worked with the conditions of the time. god revised his instructions multiple times. sometimes ordering things that sound absurd to us today. but it should never be held as a model that we aim at reproducing.

          to be continued...

          as I said, during the late 19th century and early 20th century there was an attempt at reviving this and embracing a more westernized secular rationalist interpretation of the quran and model the islamic world after christian europe. and that was pretty successful in the beginning. secularist nationalists and socialists had great popularity, and middle eastern society was heading towards a more "liberal" and secular worldview. but the cold war happened, and those people were aligned with communists so the US supported the other group, salafi fundamentalists they helped saudi arabia spread they ideology and open religous schools in central asia and the middle east. which basically lead to modern islamic extremism.

          most muslims are kinda stuck in a limbo between these two
          who is deviant and who is a real muslim? that's subjective, but I am biased and I believe extremists are deviant, because they deviated from the abrahamic tradition and the eastern mediterranean history and culture in general. they alienated islam from christianity and the west (islam in it's origin is a western not eastern religion, i know that sounds weird but it's true) and turned it into a weird orientalist eastern religion.

          didn't read this after typing it so there are a lot of typos
          just wanted to say that before some angry muslim fundamentalist or edgy ex-muslim atheist lurking here tries to nitpick about that

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So Daesh and AQ are literalist while moderates or progressive take Quran and sahaba into context like how Aisha was a norm back in time and for most of human history just like slavery .

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sorta. Even the traditional madhabs, orthodox legal schools, and aqeedah, schools of theology like Deobandi, are derived from a literalist reading. The really bad fundamentalist just go a step farther. Progressive takes on Islam are precisely that, progressive Islam.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Saudi Arabia is liberalizing now im a Muslim anon who has lot of relatives in the gulf so i sort of get to hear the news on ground . From what ive been hearing Saudi Arabia has changed drastically in past few years where women can go to Halloween parties , anime conventions and concerts with non hijabis

            Do u wish to see most Middle East states to reach a state of secularism that’s close to Turkey and Azerbaijan

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I think it is the decoupling of Islamic legal rulings, not necessarily madhabs from the state. Saudi Arabia is moving in a positive direction. Morocco is another place that comes to mind that is improving. Once, that separation happens, places like Turkey and Azerbaijan become possible. The biggest challenges then are dealing with extra-juridical violence. Legal regulations forcing people to identify with Islam even if they don't practice or even understand it like Malaysia I think need to fixed before any progress can be made.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            R u ex Muslim ? Plus do u see any benefits in Islam id imagine having that sense of brotherhood helps where a Muslim from Indonesia will try to help on in Libya .

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I never really practiced. Part of my family practiced but it was never really forced on me. I was lucky. I just learned about it for fun. I think it is just performative. People perform believing it in it but it is often hollow. I think there are better ways to form brotherhood, values, and experiences come to mind. Reason would be better, but what can you do? I don't think international politics really is built on such values necessarily either. Just public narratives that are kinda forced.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So u think most people are interest based and not ideological based ?

            R u fasting this Ramadan

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, I don't practice. I live by myself now and in the west. I went to university in Canada. I don't think it is interest. based necessarily. I think it is just people confirming to not stand out. People really have different values. Some people do it out of interests, to not deal with broken families or getting rejected by family. However, some people value their family and value other goals in their lives, just perform and do whatever else you want. Some identify Islam with their political community and want to signal that identity, they don't care about the religion itself. Some do have other political ideologies , views of statehood or more too. Some it might be a bit more complex, Lebanon comes to mind. A pluralistic democracy where religious confession plays a role where interest and ideology work kinda differently.

          • 4 weeks ago
            unironically Ahmed

            yes, the west is done using salafis, and is now dumping them. they acted like useful idiots and let the west use them to contrast soviet influence and socialist and nationalist movements, which would have brought more sovereignty and unity to the arab world. together with a more secular materialist interpretation of religion that would devolve into modern day liberalism.

            now the west is going to dump salafis and turn the middle east into neo-liberal "liberal democratic" vassal states.

            the history of the middle east during the 20th entury was grim

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            West won’t allow a democracy ever since Egypt elected morsi who was part of Islamic brotherhood . They will instead prop up oppressive regimes that will slowly liberalize the populace until west deems them fit enough to vote in policies that they find likable .

          • 4 weeks ago
            unironically Ahmed

            >would devolve
            wouldn't devolve

          • 4 weeks ago
            unironically Ahmed

            yes
            daesh and AQ trace their origin to salafism and saudi arabia
            unfortunately too much damage was done during the 70s
            and a lot of the effort that was done secularize the middle east was undone by salafis. I remember in the 80s and 90s there were too many TV channels backed by saudi arabia playing inside the houses of people who had very little knowledge about islam. this caused a lot of radicalization. also salafis basically hijacked any internet results about islam. if you google any issue in islam the first results are always from salafi sites like islamweb who give you a very biased answers. it was basically a cultural invasion backed by the CIA. a huge psyop.

            this lead to the undoing of all progress.
            nowadays mainstream islam is to islam what mainstream media is to western media. very biased and dogmatic, embraces censorship and not open to any interpretation or criticism.

            there was a report by the united press in the mid 20th century that stated that "the veil is unknown here", referring to cairo and big cities in egypt. now 90% of women in egypt wear the scarf

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This is indeed a whole issue. Salafi and Hanbali Madhab have for the most part become super mainstream. Even though every existent tradition is pretty literalist, the Salafi dialed it up a bit and also created a breeding ground for extremism and are worse than most.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So what’s current rift between makhalis and salafis ?

            Wearing the hijab is not a salaf position only plus most of Muslim world was in fitnah or ignorance of islam .

            >cia wants to spread salafi Islam
            >US also does everything in its power to try and shut up prominent salafi shieks.

            U do know about all locked up prominent Saudi scholars

          • 4 weeks ago
            unironically Ahmed

            yes read my post above your post
            salafis acted like useful idiots, madkhalis are basically a transitional state to move prepare these societies to move from salafism to neoliberalism.

            This is indeed a whole issue. Salafi and Hanbali Madhab have for the most part become super mainstream. Even though every existent tradition is pretty literalist, the Salafi dialed it up a bit and also created a breeding ground for extremism and are worse than most.

            yes I understand that most traditional schools are literalist. but there was hope during the early to mid 20th century to see a revival of a rationalist realist form of islam.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I have been there 2wice in my life (both times with my family)

    That place feels dark af IMO. I really didnt like it. Its run by an evil family (the house of Saud), and they arent even muslim. Its also run by a very corrupt secret police force that kidnaps and molests people on a regular basis (they tried kidnapping my mom and my cousin on separate occasions). Luckily the rest of my big family was close enough to stop them.

    Everyone there is dirty as frick as well. I never want to go back, and my time in Mecca is a huge reason why i am not a muslim anymore.

    Like the energy at a place like Kyoto or Indian temples just feel soooo much better

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Pajeet detected

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I am Egyptian lmao

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          انت مساري

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I forgot to point out that:

    And when We change (one) communication for (another) communication, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say: You are only a forger. Nay, most of them do not know.

    is from Verse (16:101) of the Koran

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Imagine the smell

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Knowing Arabs, the only smell you'll notice is a lot of cologne.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I’ve been there and it smells like every other public place.

      I hear your Mom’s cooter is pretty rank.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The stone is the original Omphalos of Delphi, which was raided by Christian Rome around that time, when it when missing.

    It is the largest “antennae” on earth for consuming the power of five daily directed prayer of billions. This is how Saturn now rules the world, woe to us all.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I just wanna say that this whole thread is super refreshing and also a great read. 🙂

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    First temple to the Lord of the universe set for humankind on earth.
    >Found by Adam
    >Rebuilt by Aberaham and Ishmael
    >Disecrated by Ishmaelite king that imported paganism from canaan
    >Restored to monotheism by Ishmaelite prophet late in the 7th century (just yesterday)

    • 4 weeks ago
      unironically Ahmed

      also this
      that's the correct lore behind the kaaba
      it's basically the twin of the temple at the temple mount
      the al alqsa mosque and dome of the rock are basically the third temple rebuilt.

      when muslims conquered jerusalem the stories say that the temple mount was desecrated and trash was thrown there. muslims took the area, cleaned it and rebuilt a temple (mosque) there.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Inversion

    > De-zoom
    Mecca building is mostly a Buddhist monk sit on the ground meditating and the black cube is the origin of the torus.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah why are monotheist hinduism and buddhism and jainism being supressed?

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It would be scary if the israelites actually mind control these people and also christians and have them do whatever they want

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Saudi royal family can go in there whenever they want. One of the brats uploaded a vid to YouTube. I was kind of disappointed because in my mind, I dunno, it was full of spooky spirits or something

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I wanna meditate inside the kaaba while people circle it, can someone get me in there with some snax and a blanket

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No snax cuz no toilet in 5 mile radius. So meditate on empty stomach i guess

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Outer space is fake and gay

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Then what is heaven?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        real

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The only public bathroom is 5 mile radius

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >2 billion people pray towards it
    so?

    >it has dark black Meteor at corner that was sent down by god
    that's what they say but you'd have to be a total moron to believe that shit

    >you have to circle around it 7 times when u make a pilgrimage
    i'm not a muslim so that's irrelevant to me

    >What’s mystery behind it and have any of you gone there
    there is no fricking mystery. it's another branch of abrahamism for the desert folks. only muslims are allowed to go there. non-muslims are strictly banned from going there.

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